Remainers - What do you want? When do you want it?

[optionalrationale]

We had the referendum, we had the legal challenge, we had the Supreme Court ruling, Article 50 has been triggered. The United Kingdom will no longer be part of the European Union.

So my questions to Remainers are
What do you want? When do you want it?

Here's what I want..

I want the negotiations to go well. I want future relations with our neighbours to be cordial. I want a good deal for UK and the EU. I want us to walk away if their demands are unacceptable (and stem from vindictiveness and to deter other members from following our lead). I want the UK to be free to make good trade deals with any country it wants. I want the UK to lead in creating a new model of trade without excessive interference in each partner's social and political arena.

I think Claig walks again.

It was a shame she was goaded & hounded off the boards, I always liked reading Claig's threads.

Its funny though, because although I haven't contributed much, I like many other read avidly. There are remain posters who were goaded etc too, but that never seems to be taken into account. I thought Claig got banned for using repeated disabalist slurs and attacking other posters.

I don't think Claig used disablist language iirc - that was Smallfox.
Claig was goaded & hounded until she snapped and (understandably) had a go at the gang of posters who were persistently goading her.
They achieved their aim and were gloating & virtual high fiving after the event.

See thats where the issue I have with it all.

As far as I can remember, Claig took specific mick out of Ed Milliband's speech impediment: " The gwoper", and other issues that people had. Smallpox called someone a dunce/moron or something, and people complained about that, see no difference really.

Neither should have been banned though. The one poster ( whose name I can't remember) who talked about the indegenous population, should have gone, but the other two? I don't think you can say one needed to go and not the other. There have been a few more, I must say I miss the balance that was MangoMoon who seems to have vanished too sadly :(

Smallfox said far, far worse than moron or dunce.

She repeatedly referred to 'chin-dribblers' and told posters to 'wipe their chins' as well as various 'tard' themes.
Directed at specific, named posters on threads.
That's just off the top of my head.

(I was repeatedly called a 'dribbling moron' by Smallfox - she was a foul person).

"I thought Claig got banned for using repeated disabalist slurs and attacking other posters."

Rubbish. On so many different levels. But suppose Im attacking you now Danny?

Sadly, its not Claig, (no offence OP, but Claig was proven right on more occasions I can start to remember, a fact which sent posters into an hysterical meltdown, and yes she was relentlessly hounded...if only theyd listened hey). Ive not seen one 'teh' in the OPs posts, and style, content totally different, and her insight was second to none. Personally, Im unsure if Claig was banned, or if, she took the sensible view that Im sure a lot of posters did around that time, that its utterly futile engaging with the rabid 'youre racist' brigade.

Id love her to pick up again. Julian Assange is still illegally held in the Equadorian embassy. Wikileaks references have almost completely dissapeared from these boards (despite their 100% accuracy). Trump is utterly misunderstood even by those who understand him and the 'youre all racists' dominate debate on any sphere.

The only way I can see decent debate returning here, is for MN to take the view that accusing posters of racism, where clearly no racist comment has been posted, is contrary to posting guidelines and is indeed a highly offensive accusation. However, as its clearly acceptable to stick to the 'you voted leave, youre a racist narrative', we are where we are.

Ah I didn't see that, I saw the one where people accused her of using disablist language, when it was something like moron or dunce.

I never saw her call anyone a retard either, but to be fair, its not too dissimilar to what Claig was calling other posters, and public figures on the Trump Threads, there were lots of references to "libtards" for a long time by her that went uncommented on.

Does anyone know what happened to Mango?

Trump is utterly misunderstood even by those who understand him

Eh? The people who 'understand him' don't understand him?

Do you think a non British person would know about Cleckheaton? Hmmmm?

Hi! Yes.

Trump is utterly misunderstood because he says and does things that are completely at opposition with each other all the time.

Bemoaning the fate of poor children of chemical attacks, whilst not allowing refugees. The fact that they told Putin before the attack, who would have told Assad, which is why there is limited damage to the air power of Syria, that kind of thing.

I think Smallfox was also banned due to abusive private messages as well as the disablist language?
Like Danny, I'm an avid reader rather than a regular poster, but remember the kick offs when Smallfox kept trying to rejoin MN despite their ban.
Claig had a unique posting style, I definitely think she's left MN for good.

I don't think she left, I think she was banned.

I'm upset if Mango got banned though.

Didn't know about the abusive private messages.

I want remain no matter what. My view is as much a gut feeling as those who felt So strongly that they didn't want to be part of the EU. I hope we get another referendum to stop the madness. If we leave I will campaign for us to rejoin.

YY to the private messaging, except it didn't remain private for long after the receiving poster posted the message publicly & has done so since (although for some reason MN keep deleting it when she does).

Nasty piece of work was the 🦊.

Claig had been bumping around on the politics boards for years before the EU Ref.
Started off with things like climate change etc iirc, then rightly predicted the EU Ref being implemented, along with Leave winning & then also Trump becoming POTUS.
She was dismissed for years as a likeable conspiracy theorist, and a bit daft for her predictions - but when they all came true people turned nasty toward her which was a shame.
I always found her lovely tbh, and she took a load of piss taking over a protracted time in really good humour - completely indomitable in spirit.

I wasn't on MN when Claig was likeable then, I saw lots of abuse of pubic figures and use of the term " libtards" and lipstick libs, accusing people of being SJWs etc.

I predicted Leave and Trump too, btw, just wish I'd had a bet on Leicester and won 2.5 million.

I

IT was me smallfox sent the nasty pm to. I'll post it again, I think they were routinely deleted because smallfox in another guise and her cronies kept reporting them? Posting pm's is not against guidelines, and I told mnhq I wouldn't stop posting it if was relevant to the thread.

I don't understand either why they get deleted Wendy.
She was a horror.

I thought Smallfox was rather an isolationist poster, people like RTB and others didn't really interact with her or respond to her?

BTW to answer the question, I don't want us following the leave at any cost method, I think lots of compromise is going to be needed in order to get a deal which is beneficial.

The only problem with that is there is a very vocal and powerful leave at any cost group in the conservative party.

Here's the PM I got:

I just thought I'd come back to add this just for you.

Yup your faux outrage at disablist language got me banned and I'm off for good now, but I do think it's funny that you have to resort to this tactic because you can't actually deal with the arguments being put to you. You hit the complaint button repeatedly and hope hat others disappear because you can't back up your arguments and the points you do make are so lacking in any kind of intellectual rigour its funny.

I can see why you voted for brexit and are happy that Trump one, it allows you to blame all of the difficulties that you have on others. But here's the rub my dear, it's because of you, the fact that you seek to blame others shows the paucity of your own abilities and lacklustre efforts.

Your racist and frankly disgusting views are abhorrent, but it's fucking funny that you see brexit and trump as a victory. Snivelling medicorities like you will certainly not be better off but worse.

Me, I'll be fine I'm not mediocre.. I only intended to come back as vulpe for one niget and honestly thought you and ww might have got on sooner the clue really was rathr obvious. t seems that there really is an intellectual deficit in leave voters which does make me laugh.

Anyway dear fuckwit, as I stand on the smoking terrace at Shoreditch house and look across london, I think just how good my life in the metropolitan elite bubble is and then raise my dark and stormy and thank the Lord I am not you.

Are we sure Smallfox was always the same person then?

That personal email reads very differently to some of the stuff she posted which was actually quite well thought out.

Could Smallfox have been paid to post?

Was Claig?

I think she typed it in a rage and a hurry before her latest persona was banned.

The personal email reads exactly the same.

Officious, self-aggrandising, snotty and supercilious in tone.

See I don't think all the posts she put up were like that, neither do I think all of Claig's stuff was nasty, she could be quite funny, it just seems like both of them were here a lot, enough to get them on to the leader board for posting when both disappeared from the boards months ago.

There's also the fact that both took as much abuse as they handed out, from groups of posters. Both had a supercilious tone at times too.

No one seems to know what happened to Mango though, why would she be banned.