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Brexit

Westminstenders: The wheels on bus start to fall off, start to fall off…

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 06/04/2017 21:42

The wheels on bus start to fall off, start to fall off…

Since Article 50 has been triggered – 8 days ago:

  1. A week after a terror attack in London, the government threatened to stop co-operation over security issues with the EU. This was quickly retracted as ‘not being a threat’. Except it was.

  2. The ‘Great’ Repeal Act White Paper was published. Its vague, lacks detail, does not have a draft bill and there is no plan for a public consultation over it. It proposes sweeping powers for the government without parliamentary scrutiny using Henry VIII powers.

  3. HMRC have said the new computer system planned for launch in 2019, won’t be able to cope with the additional work which leaving the Customs Union would produce. It would be five times the work load which sounds like a lot more red tape.

  4. Spain have said they would not oppose an Independent Scotland being in the EU.

  5. May’s article 50 letter did not mention Gibraltar and after the publication of the EU draft document on how the Brexit process would be handled, this looks like a massive error and oversight. One of the clauses was that any future arrangements with regard to Gibraltar had to be settled with Spain bi-laterally rather than by the EU and the UK’s agreement with the EU would not apply to Gibraltar, unless Spain agreed. This has been taken as an affront to Gibraltar’s sovereignty, although the document says nothing about sovereignty. Michael Howard, however, decided this was sufficient grounds to threaten our ally Spain with war.

May has not condemned his comments, and laughed it off. Though she was happy to get worked up about the word ‘Easter’ a couple of days later.

Of course, this situation was entirely predictable and was predicted yet this situation seems to have taken the government by surprise. Our reaction, in the context of everything else, has made the UK look like a basket case.

  1. The government’s plan to run talks on the UK’s settlement on leaving the EU in parallel with talks on the UK’s future relationship with the EU has been rejected by the EU. Instead we must do things in stages, with advancement to the next stage only possible after completing the last: Stage 1 – Exit, Stage 2 – Preliminary agreement on future relation, Stage 3 – Exit/Transition Deal, Stage 4 – As third country status enter a new deal.

The effect of this also means that deals we currently have with counties like South Korea through the EU need to be revisited. There is no guarantee these countries will want to continue trading with us on the same terms, if they do not want to.

  1. The EU has set out its own red lines. Our deal 'must encompass safeguards against...fiscal, social & environmental dumping'. Our transition deal must not last longer than three years and individual sectors, like banking, should not get special treatment.

Donald Tusk has said we don’t need a punishment deal as we are doing a good job of shooting ourselves in the foot, whilst Guy Verhofstadt said Brexit is Brexit is a 'catfight in Conservative party that got out of hand” and hoped future generations would reverse it.

  1. May has admitted that we might well have no deal in place by the time we leave the EU. Until now we have been told we would have a deal in two years. She has also admitted an extension of free movement of people beyond Brexit.

  2. The Brexit Select Committee published their report which warned about the dangers of exit without any deal, as well as talking about problems relating to the ‘Great’ Repeal Act, Gibraltar and NI. This is sensible and you’d think uncontroversial, but the Brexiteers threw the toys out of their pram saying it was too pessimistic. The government’s job is, of course, to plan for problems no matter how unlikely – such as disasters – and to hope that never happens. It seems that these Brexiteers don’t want to act responsibility or do their job.

  3. Questions at the WTO have been asked about how Brexit will affect them. Interest in the subject came initially from Indonesia about Tariff Rate Quotas, but other parties who were watching closely were Argentina, China, Russia and the United States.

  4. Phillip Hammond has openly said that there are a number of Tory MPs who want us to not make any agreement with the EU and to crash out in a chaotic exit.

  5. Polling has suggested that people want Brexit to be quick and cheap. Not only that, but the word ‘Brexit’ has started to poll badly. Instead the Brexit department are advising officials to use the phrase “new partnership with Europe”. Lynton Crosby, the mastermind behind 2015’s Conservative victory has also warned that the Tories would probably lose 30 seats they gained from the LDs at an early election.

Of course, even a 2020 election might prove challenging with a transition deal still likely to be unresolved as Brexit drags on. Government strategy is, apparently, to hope that Remainer's anger will have dissolved by 2020.

Eight days in, and the Brexit Bus looks like it strayed into 1980's Toxeth and got torched, its wheels nicked, and graffitied with obscenities over its £350million pledge.

OP posts:
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prettybird · 17/04/2017 22:42

On my mum's side I am supposedly descended from Henry VIII wrong side of the blanket - I have a signet that is passed down through the family to "prove" it Wink

In theory, that means I can trace my ancestry back to King Cedric of Wessex who reigned in 519. GrinShock

But I'm "tainted" Wink on my dad's side, with German, Swedish and more recently (but one generation too far for a passport Hmm) Danish and Irish (Irish Hugeuonot to boot Wink) added in to the South African mix. Grin

As it happens, I can't find any Scots in my ancestry Shock. Doesn't make me any less Scottish though Grin

whatwouldrondo · 17/04/2017 22:44

Lurking Smile

woman12345 · 17/04/2017 22:55

^We damage Britain by denying its migrant past
Brexiters spoke of ‘taking our country back’. But that was based on a false notion who we are as a people, and of our history of immigration^

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/oct/27/britain-migrant-past-brexiters-immigrant-history

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_English

^English is a West Germanic language that originated from Anglo-Frisian dialects brought to Britain in the mid 5th to 7th centuries AD by Germanic invaders and settlers from what is now northwest Germany, west Denmark and the Netherlands.
Early Modern English – the language used by Shakespeare – is dated from around 1500. It incorporated many Renaissance-era loans from Latin and Ancient Greek, as well as borrowings from other European languages, including French, German and Dutch^

It'd be funny if part of the deal is giving back the language we nicked.

English is an immigrant language

And Flowers BigChoc that any British child is spoken of and to like that.

woman12345 · 17/04/2017 23:00

And that's why the English language is one of the best there is. Smile

woman12345 · 17/04/2017 23:24

www.independent.co.uk/student/news/kelechi-chioba-yarls-wood-detention-centre-sexual-violence-home-office-deportation-removal-nus-a7683701.html

"A disabled student who was beaten and abused by her own family in Nigeria could be sent to the UK’s most notorious detention centre while she waits to hear whether she faces deportation.

Kelechi Chioba, an asylum seeker who suffers from polio and mental health problems, was told she would be sent to Yarl’s Wood Detention Centre this month"

www.theguardian.com/education/2017/apr/17/nut-to-tell-parents-not-to-give-details-of-childrens-nationality-and-birthplace

"Parents are being told not to supply information on their children’s nationality and birthplace being demanded by the government, amid fears that the information could be used to enforce immigration laws.

The National Union of Teachers’ annual conference passed a motion condemning the Department for Education’s attempts to record pupils’ nationality and country of birth in the national pupil database (NPD), with delegates told that the details could be passed to the Home Office and police".

BigChocFrenzy · 18/04/2017 06:35

Thanks, woman Flowers

Yarl's Wood is a national disgrace, where the human rights of detainees to be kept safe and fed are abused:
. sexual assaults on women, including by staff
. disabled detainees not allowed wheelchairs to get to the healthcare unit for meds, or to the canteen for food

No wonder May wants to leave the ECHR Angry

BigChocFrenzy · 18/04/2017 07:07

howabout Internationally rated economists, i.e. not chancers focused in selling tax-dodging to punters - agree that UK productivity started falling relative to the US and Germany from the late 19th century, so during the Victorian era.
Obviously that won't mean dropping during every single selected period.

Momey Week cherrypicked a method of calculation and cherrypicked an untypical short period of time - during which e.g. the Germany was coping with the aftermath of reunification with the ruin that was the DDR.

I'd judge Money Week to be a very dubious source, twisting data to support an economically hard right business viewpoint:

It quotes that far right wingnut Redwood as a fount of wisdom and refers to IHT as "the most hated tax in Britain" - pure Fail territory.

They claim one of the UK's major problems is not letting companies go bust, or sack workers as easily as the US does - pure hard right dogma.
In fact the UK has let too many manufacturing companies go bust - during the Thatcher era especially, but not exclusively.
Other EU countries support companies far more, so they survive short term problems to prosper later.
As I posted, it is very difficult to sack workers in Germany and France etc and far too easy to sack in the UK. Making it still easier to sack UK workers is punishing workers for the UK structural and management failures.

BigChocFrenzy · 18/04/2017 07:09

I remember the productivity gap back in the 1970s and 1980s and it was regarded as a very longrunning problem even then

Motheroffourdragons · 18/04/2017 07:25

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ to protect the privacy of the user.

woman12345 · 18/04/2017 07:29

I reckon the people who are complaining, and hoping it won't happen are either nationals of another EU country living here or people who have a relative who is from EU

www.theguardian.com/law/2017/apr/18/opening-un-holocaust-files-archive-war-crimes-commission

^Opening of UN files on Holocaust will 'rewrite chapters of history'
Archive used in prosecution of Nazis reveals detailed evidence of death camps and genocide previously unseen by public^

In years to come how will what is happening now be judged?

Peregrina · 18/04/2017 08:23

More trouble for Theresa May, and her stooges, plus the "We're leaving, why don't remainers shut up" brigade:

Danish fishing rights

It illustrates how much has been derived from International agreements, and is yet another area that no one bothered to give any attention to. This will be yet another thing which will take Davis by surprise, seeing as he hadn't even thought of the obvious things like EHIC cards and aviation agreements. I look forward to seeing how well we will be perceived as having a global outlook when the UK decides to tear up international agreements.

Still Brexit means Brexit and the will of the people gave May and the stooges an "overwhelming" mandate, so another puzzle for them to get on with. I look forward to seeing them negotiate this in two years, since they have done nothing of substance in nearly 10 months.

Carolinesbeanies · 18/04/2017 08:52

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Peregrina · 18/04/2017 08:59

I have reported Carolinesbeanes post, because of the offensive comment to the other poster.

How will we look back on this stage of our history? Someone mentioned the other day how the existence of concentration camps in Germany was known about before the war. Post war, so many people said, "we didn't know", yet it was perhaps a case of "we chose not to know". So I hope that I can be vigilant and not be one who chooses not to know. The difficulty is knowing what to do.

TheElementsSong · 18/04/2017 09:04

Goodness, language Caroline Shock

HashiAsLarry · 18/04/2017 09:20

Ooh, did I miss anything good? Envy

New Statesman on Barista visas

"It’s modeled after the “youth mobility scheme”, which is open to 18 to 30 year olds from Australia, Canada, Japan, Monaco, New Zealand, South Korea, Taiwan and Hong Kong. To qualify, people who come to Britain under the scheme need £1,890 in savings.

It’s not a particularly attractive offer, is it? Come to Britain to work in a coffee shop. If you get promoted? You can’t stay. If you fall in love? You can’t stay. If you set up a new business or establish yourself as a writer while working at a coffee shop? You can’t stay. Small wonder that the scheme attracted just 42,000 last year – from countries with a combined population of around 350m."

RufusTheRenegadeReindeer · 18/04/2017 09:42

I missed it too hashi

Probably a good thing if its been deleted

Peregrina · 18/04/2017 09:45

You missed only a gratuitous insult to woman12345.

PattyPenguin · 18/04/2017 09:47

They're been looking at Australia's system, haven't they? The Australian "Working Holiday Visa" is only one year, but the title is in my view better branding.

I bet they're looking at Australia's modified "Temporary Skill Shortage" visas, too.

Carolinesbeanies · 18/04/2017 09:54

Clearly not Hashi. Leave voters wishing for control of immigrant numbers are stocking up on Zyklon B. Clearly MN finds this acceptable. A legitimate vote, as demanded by our own government. Remainers, you have just lost your last right to be heard.

whatwouldrondo · 18/04/2017 10:07

Caroline Carry on with the hyperbole, straw man arguments and insults and nobody will be listening to you.......

Bolshybookworm · 18/04/2017 10:09

Can't be arsed to give conversational oxygen to the above poster.

Theresa May is going to make a Downing Street Statement. Shall we start a theoretical sweepstake on what it's going to be about?

missmoon · 18/04/2017 10:13

Resigning? I don't think she can just call an election, would have to repeal the FTPA first, or call a vote of no confidence in herself.

missmoon · 18/04/2017 10:14

I think either resigning, or some military intervention (North Korea).

HashiAsLarry · 18/04/2017 10:15

Out and out racism so early on.

I'm guessing TM's upcoming statement is making people quite nervous. You won, get over it. Grin

TM will definitely say something that she thinks is inspirational but will actually be a headmistressy dictat. Or do I have to be more specific bolshy

RufusTheRenegadeReindeer · 18/04/2017 10:16

Leave voters and remain voters is much better