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Brexit

Westminstenders: The wheels on bus start to fall off, start to fall off…

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 06/04/2017 21:42

The wheels on bus start to fall off, start to fall off…

Since Article 50 has been triggered – 8 days ago:

  1. A week after a terror attack in London, the government threatened to stop co-operation over security issues with the EU. This was quickly retracted as ‘not being a threat’. Except it was.

  2. The ‘Great’ Repeal Act White Paper was published. Its vague, lacks detail, does not have a draft bill and there is no plan for a public consultation over it. It proposes sweeping powers for the government without parliamentary scrutiny using Henry VIII powers.

  3. HMRC have said the new computer system planned for launch in 2019, won’t be able to cope with the additional work which leaving the Customs Union would produce. It would be five times the work load which sounds like a lot more red tape.

  4. Spain have said they would not oppose an Independent Scotland being in the EU.

  5. May’s article 50 letter did not mention Gibraltar and after the publication of the EU draft document on how the Brexit process would be handled, this looks like a massive error and oversight. One of the clauses was that any future arrangements with regard to Gibraltar had to be settled with Spain bi-laterally rather than by the EU and the UK’s agreement with the EU would not apply to Gibraltar, unless Spain agreed. This has been taken as an affront to Gibraltar’s sovereignty, although the document says nothing about sovereignty. Michael Howard, however, decided this was sufficient grounds to threaten our ally Spain with war.

    May has not condemned his comments, and laughed it off. Though she was happy to get worked up about the word ‘Easter’ a couple of days later.

    Of course, this situation was entirely predictable and was predicted yet this situation seems to have taken the government by surprise. Our reaction, in the context of everything else, has made the UK look like a basket case.

  6. The government’s plan to run talks on the UK’s settlement on leaving the EU in parallel with talks on the UK’s future relationship with the EU has been rejected by the EU. Instead we must do things in stages, with advancement to the next stage only possible after completing the last: Stage 1 – Exit, Stage 2 – Preliminary agreement on future relation, Stage 3 – Exit/Transition Deal, Stage 4 – As third country status enter a new deal.

    The effect of this also means that deals we currently have with counties like South Korea through the EU need to be revisited. There is no guarantee these countries will want to continue trading with us on the same terms, if they do not want to.

  7. The EU has set out its own red lines. Our deal 'must encompass safeguards against...fiscal, social & environmental dumping'. Our transition deal must not last longer than three years and individual sectors, like banking, should not get special treatment.

    Donald Tusk has said we don’t need a punishment deal as we are doing a good job of shooting ourselves in the foot, whilst Guy Verhofstadt said Brexit is Brexit is a 'catfight in Conservative party that got out of hand” and hoped future generations would reverse it.

  8. May has admitted that we might well have no deal in place by the time we leave the EU. Until now we have been told we would have a deal in two years. She has also admitted an extension of free movement of people beyond Brexit.

  9. The Brexit Select Committee published their report which warned about the dangers of exit without any deal, as well as talking about problems relating to the ‘Great’ Repeal Act, Gibraltar and NI. This is sensible and you’d think uncontroversial, but the Brexiteers threw the toys out of their pram saying it was too pessimistic. The government’s job is, of course, to plan for problems no matter how unlikely – such as disasters – and to hope that never happens. It seems that these Brexiteers don’t want to act responsibility or do their job.

  10. Questions at the WTO have been asked about how Brexit will affect them. Interest in the subject came initially from Indonesia about Tariff Rate Quotas, but other parties who were watching closely were Argentina, China, Russia and the United States.

  11. Phillip Hammond has openly said that there are a number of Tory MPs who want us to not make any agreement with the EU and to crash out in a chaotic exit.

  12. Polling has suggested that people want Brexit to be quick and cheap. Not only that, but the word ‘Brexit’ has started to poll badly. Instead the Brexit department are advising officials to use the phrase “new partnership with Europe”. Lynton Crosby, the mastermind behind 2015’s Conservative victory has also warned that the Tories would probably lose 30 seats they gained from the LDs at an early election.

    Of course, even a 2020 election might prove challenging with a transition deal still likely to be unresolved as Brexit drags on. Government strategy is, apparently, to hope that Remainer's anger will have dissolved by 2020.

    Eight days in, and the Brexit Bus looks like it strayed into 1980's Toxeth and got torched, its wheels nicked, and graffitied with obscenities over its £350million pledge.
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Mistigri · 18/04/2017 12:28

She still has to get this through parliament. It would be amusing if opposition MPs all lined up against this, although they won't.

Hard to see how the Lib Dems can back a GE now, since the FTPA was a coalition policy. That makes the Tories massive hypocrites, of course, but I like to think of hypocrisy as a Tory party policy, so it's kind of a consistent hypocrisy, if that makes sense.

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squoosh · 18/04/2017 12:13

'And yes, it stops the embarassment of having several byelections because of expenses "carelessness"'

No doubt this was a major motivation for today's announcement. Must protect the party at all costs.

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BigChocFrenzy · 18/04/2017 11:57

Tory Leavers can celebrate a huge Tory win - still won't change the terms the E27 offer for Brexit, but they can console themselves with cutting benefits and the nhs

Lexiters can decide if they are happy with all the cuts and another 5, probably 15+ years of Tory hard right govt, in exchange for Brexit.

Something for everyone

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howabout · 18/04/2017 11:55

Went and got on with my life for an hour and look what happens Shock

I'm all in favour. Makes no difference to the timetable as DD has already done as much homework as he can be bothered with and all bets are off in the EU till after French and German elections.

Interesting polling Pretty. The Conservative 26% may yet go higher. I know more Tories than pandas who lent their vote to the SNP to get rid of Labour last time. Was looking at GE 2015 analysis last week. The Lib/Dem recovery could oust SNP in Aberdeenlike seats. East Renf could yet revert to its Tory home.

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BigChocFrenzy · 18/04/2017 11:54

And yes, it stops the embarassment of having several byelections because of expenses "carelessness"

and she will hope that by the next GE in 2024, the economic downside of Brexit will be easing < well, we can all hope >

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BigChocFrenzy · 18/04/2017 11:50

I've been expecting her to call an early GE for months now.
I was surprised when it wasn't called for the 4 May local elections date.

Although constitutionally a PM can just be annointed if her predecessor quits, such a PM never has the same moral authority as one who has won her own mandate in a GE.
Previous PMs who "inherited" their post weren't intending to carry out the most significant change that the UK in the last 65+ years.

  • She will likely have a clear mandate from voters and the authority that gives
  • It will bring her own party into line
  • It will stop key HoL votes against her govt, because the HoLtraditionally don't block policies that were in a govt party manifesto.

    It won't stop the SNP opposing her afterwards, because their mandate is from Scottish voters

    Major plus: this is the first real chance to remove the zombie leadership of Corbyn
    and to pave the way for an effective Leader of the Opposition.

    Unless the polls are total rubbish, Labour are likely to be humiliated badly.
    If they don't junk him after that, then Labour should no longer be taken seriously as a political party - just a chaotic group of protestors.
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RedToothBrush · 18/04/2017 11:49

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/2906351-Westministenders-Wake-up-and-smell-the-coffee-shit-just-hit-the-fan?watched=1
New Thread with a few thoughts on.

LDs had a statement out to the press at 11.16 from Tim Farron backing the GE.

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HashiAsLarry · 18/04/2017 11:45

I don't think she is interested in a mandate - this is about castrating the police inquiry into election expenses. She knows some bad shit is going to come out of that and the deadline is fast approaching.
I wondered that myself too. Pretty convenient timing.

Any chance that the Labour party and Lib-Dems will refuse to vote for it?
The Lib Dems wont. They can see some massive gains.

Someone on this thread seems to be on glue....hmm
I quite like it when they show how scared they are and a complete lack of grasp on words. Grin

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squoosh · 18/04/2017 11:43

Someone's been having sneaky early morning swigs from the cooking sherry...

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pointythings · 18/04/2017 11:40

Someone on this thread seems to be on glue....Hmm

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Carolinesbeanies · 18/04/2017 11:37

You had your chance to be heard. You chose to use that voice to create a 'nazi britain' whipping up fear, panic, and hatred. You blew it.

This is great news for brexiteers, democracy, and the UK. Well done TM.

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officerhinrika · 18/04/2017 11:36

Announced at 11.05, BBC news at 11.32, still no reaction from Jeremy Corbyn......oh ffs Jeremy, how much time do you need for a pithy tweet?
This is going to be horrendous, we don't even have a party meeting this month what with Easter and the council elections. I could cry.

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lalalonglegs · 18/04/2017 11:36

I believe that she needs 2/3 majority in vote in HoC. Any chance that the Labour party and Lib-Dems will refuse to vote for it? No thought not.

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prettybird · 18/04/2017 11:34

Far too small a sample to properly extrapolate - and it will be further confounded by the STV system we use for council elections (whole country on 4 May) but interesting nevertheless. See how far Labour has fallen! ShockGood to are that UKIP is still getting short thrift. still not a single councillor in Scotland Grin

@scotelects: .@YouGov #Wesminster poll (17/4/17)
Scotland subsample (190) of voting intention

SNP 44%
CON 26%
LAB 13%
LD 10%
GRN 5%
UKIP 3%

#Scotland

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Tanith · 18/04/2017 11:32

Bang goes those promised 30 hours free childcare for a start!

I wonder what else will be quietly dropped in the pretence of "seeking clarity on Brexit"? Hmm

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Mistigri · 18/04/2017 11:30

I don't think she is interested in a mandate - this is about castrating the police inquiry into election expenses. She knows some bad shit is going to come out of that and the deadline is fast approaching.

Cynical, but nevertheless a compelling argument.

As I often say to my boss, I have rarely gone wrong in my working career due to an excess of scepticism.

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NotDavidTennant · 18/04/2017 11:30

At least we might soon be rid of Corbyn as Labour leader.

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Mistigri · 18/04/2017 11:28

Cross-posting from another thread, because it saves on retyping and us French workers believe in productivity.

Does a GE really change anything? What are the implications?

Will replace one brexit tory government with another - I don't think there is any doubt about that. The question is does a new government mean new ministers? If there is a comprehensive reshuffle, what does that do to the timeline for A50 negotiations? (My view is that this most likely delays the start of the real work of negotiation to October, giving only 11 months to complete the process.)

Alternatively, May wins but doesn't reshuffle, in which case it's a lot of sound and fury over nothing.

I guess the Labour party gets put out of its misery either way, which is something that I think both remainers and brexiters can unite on.

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whatwouldrondo · 18/04/2017 11:26

I have started shouting at the screen already. Tory MPs told to present the choice as one between strong and stable leadership in the national interest under Theresa May and a weak and unstable coalition under the leadership of Jeremy Corben. What I want is government in the national interest too, and an MP who is speaking up for that. twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/854277604886683649/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fpolitics%2Fblog%2Flive%2F2017%2Fapr%2F18%2Fcorbyn-cressida-dick-met-police-a-gun-may-not-have-saved-pc-killed-in-westminster-terror-attack-says-new-met-chief-politics-live

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lalalonglegs · 18/04/2017 11:21

Hash - so will Ken Clarke though Sad.

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lalalonglegs · 18/04/2017 11:21

I don't think she is interested in a mandate - this is about castrating the police inquiry into election expenses. She knows some bad shit is going to come out of that and the deadline is fast approaching.

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officerhinrika · 18/04/2017 11:21

"The country is coming together behind Brexit". Can't say I've noticed, isn't this just wishful Daily Mail thinking? 48% are probably still seething about it.

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HashiAsLarry · 18/04/2017 11:20

At least Kate Hoey may get early retirement

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Mistigri · 18/04/2017 11:19

Fucking Tory bastards never did keep their manifesto promise to give me back my vote.

One consolation is that it wouldn't make any difference, as my likely constituency is strongly remain and has a pro-remain Labour MP with a large majority.

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lalalonglegs · 18/04/2017 11:15

Nearly everything she said turned my stomach.

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