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Brexit

The Brexit Arms

999 replies

BrexitArmsLandLady · 30/03/2017 13:38

🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧

Article 50 has been triggered (finally!).
Now we move onwards to the future 🍻

All welcome, as ever...

🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧

OP posts:
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23
WrongTrouser · 10/06/2017 10:23

If many people didn't vote on Brexit, perhaps that is because the two main parties both had leaving the EU and single market in their manifestoes. So they voted on other issues, believing that one to be settled.

It's very twisted logic to use that to then argue their votes show they don't want to leave the EU and single market.

twofingerstoEverything · 10/06/2017 10:24

But Brexit is now quite rightly back in focus and every elected MP will have a say on it.

Indeed they will and I think you'll find the worm has turned and the hard Brexit some of you have been craving is going to be nothing of the sort, with MPs like RD calling for 'open Brexit'. Now that TM has got rather a lot of egg on her face, many more MPs will stick their heads above the parapet and speak out against TM's reckless version of Brexit ("no deal better than a bad deal") etc.

If we had a bit more transparency about the cost of this project, probably even more would turn against it. You never know, we might even see people listening to 'experts' again, now that the billionaire owners of the right wing press have failed to get the result they want.

twofingerstoEverything · 10/06/2017 10:26

because 2/3rds of Labour constituents voted leave.

Er, I don't think so! 65% voted remain

everthibkyouvebeenconned · 10/06/2017 10:28

I didn't vote for a party based on leaving the EU. I want to stay. As has been said hardly anyone did vote 're Brexit. Thought that vote happened a year ago

The Tories are taking this as a very strong indication that a hard Brexit is not wanted by the electorate. I really don't think the 48% now all think its a great idea and are converted. Nor does anyone else

twofingerstoEverything · 10/06/2017 10:32

Wrong "If many people didn't vote on Brexit, perhaps that is because the two main parties both had leaving the EU and single market in their manifestoes."

From Labour Party's manifesto:
We will scrap the Conservatives’ Brexit White Paper and replace it with fresh negotiating priorities that have a strong emphasis on retaining the benefits of the Single Market and the Customs Union – which are essential for maintaining industries, jobs and businesses in Britain. Labour will always put jobs and the economy first.

That doesn't unequivocally say 'we will leave the single market' to me. Grin

WrongTrouser · 10/06/2017 10:36

The Labour manifesto says freedom of movement will end when we leave the EU. I thought the EU had been very clear that the four freedoms are indivisible and so ending FOM whilst staying in the single market was not an option.

Bearbehind · 10/06/2017 10:37

If you want to use that argument, I think you need to define hard Brexit.

In therein lies the problem.

By now the type of Brexit we're are aiming for should be more defined than 'the best possible deal'

TM is/was hell bent on leaving the Single Market/ customs Union and walking away with no deal if necessary, JC was not so a vote for Labour was a vote against Hard Brexit.

I think people are beginning to realise that 'hard Brexit' that screws the economy just for the sake of bringing immigration down marginally isn't worth it.

WrongTrouser · 10/06/2017 10:38

I imagine constituents was a typo for constituencies.

Carolinesbeanies · 10/06/2017 10:44

"Er, I don't think so! <a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=yougov.co.uk/news/2016/06/27/how-britain-voted/" target="_blank">65% voted remain"

Not according to Diane Abbott and the Labour Party.

Around 3:20. Now I know Diane Abbots maths has been called into question, but if she and the Labour Party were indeed wrong...well, theyve dropped a huuuuuuuuge clanger on their manifesto.

Carolinesbeanies · 10/06/2017 10:48

Yes it was a typo. Apols.

Carolinesbeanies · 10/06/2017 10:50

and "strong emphasis" was quite intentionally not "we will "

RufusTheRenegadeReindeer · 10/06/2017 17:30

Yeah

I didnt vote for anything to do with brexit

It was pissing me off knowing that for some people it appeared to be the referendum rerun

VIPissArtist · 10/06/2017 20:22

I dont believe for a second TM would have walked away with no deal but thats hard ball negotiation with hard ball people.

The eu has not budged for DC and did not budge for greece and wont bail out italy but people want to go in begging for mercy? They are arrogant.

We had a chance with TM playing HB but now with her hands tied, forget it - and then people will say " oooh look you have had to except free movement - oh look you only got this - was it worth it...."

but then the actual problems wont be solved - so they will all rise up again and yes - there will be more problems. We had a problem in the UK and brexit - hard brexit solves it.

VIPissArtist · 10/06/2017 20:23

accept!

Bearbehind · 10/06/2017 20:27

VIP, could you please explain why you think the EU are arrogant but us thinking we can have all the upsides of membership with no downsides isn't?

RedToothBrush · 10/06/2017 22:58

Labour voters main reasons did not include Brexit. Only 8% of Labour voters listed it as their main reason for voting for the party. In comparison 48% of Conservatives voted for their party on the basis of Brexit.

It renders this argument.

82% voted for parties whose manifesto included leaving the single market and ending freedom of movement.

fatally flawed as a way to endorse a hard brexit. It is the thinking of someone who did vote the way they did being applied to others incorrectly.

What is does demonstrate is that Labour voters are less concerned about Brexit than the LD and Conservative voters. The NHS is more important.

What's also noticeable about the reasons to vote labour list, in comparison to the Conservative one, is the total absence of immigration being a concern.

In terms of what next for Brexit, I think you'll find that Labour supporters are therefore more flexible over Brexit and will chose the option that ultimately supports the NHS best.

That is, after all, why some Leavers liked the idea of the £350 million promise. And now appear to have switched back to Labour.

Start seeing things through the eyes of what other say and do, rather than sticking to the version you see and how you interpret things. That's very firmly over. Start bloody listening. Reality just hit.

May needs to do it.
So does everyone who followed her.

The Brexit Arms
Charmageddon · 10/06/2017 23:11

Start seeing things through the eyes of what other say and do, rather than sticking to the version you see and how you interpret things. That's very firmly over. Start bloody listening. Reality just hit.

Confused

For goodness sake, get off the preach box.

Believe it or not, people who voted for Brexit are perfectly capable of seeing things through many prisms.

We're not the idiotic, rigid robots that you seem to have neatly boxed us as.

WrongTrouser · 10/06/2017 23:16

I second Charmageddon's post.

And Red

Start seeing things through the eyes of what other say and do, rather than sticking to the version you see and how you interpret things. That's very firmly over. Start bloody listening. Reality just hit.

RedToothBrush · 10/06/2017 23:18

Well seriously, don't come up with that bullshit about voting for hard brexit. People didn't. Its crap propaganda that simplified to the point of absurdity. Its designed to try and keep this hard brexit insanity.

We've had 12 months of that shit.

It ain't happening anymore. Consensus time. Not cliff time.

Charmageddon · 10/06/2017 23:23

I can't speak for anyone else, but I posted that there's no more 48%, it's 82%.

Why?

Because I get sick of seeing the same sanctimonious, goady shit posted on this thread by the same posters whenever they're cross and feel like doing a bit of Brexiter kicking to make themselves feel better.

So I thought I'd put a ridiculous post up too.

Do you know why this thread died off?

Because of the pedantic & persistent goading from the same old posters.

It got tedious in the extreme & nobody could be fucked reading the same old drivel and bollocks anymore.

Charmageddon · 10/06/2017 23:24

Maybe step outside the echo chamber every now & again & you'll see that people have moved on.

WrongTrouser · 10/06/2017 23:25

So in RedToothBrush land, what it says in Labour's manifesto is not what Labour voters voted for. Yeah, okay then, that makes sense.

RufusTheRenegadeReindeer · 10/06/2017 23:28

Because I get sick of seeing the same sanctimonious, goady shit posted on this thread by the same posters whenever they're cross and feel like doing a bit of Brexiter kicking to make themselves feel better.

Aaah so you are saying that you thought you would lower yourself to the same perceived level by posting goady shit yourself

I get it...

RufusTheRenegadeReindeer · 10/06/2017 23:29

Off to bed now

Night all

Charmageddon · 10/06/2017 23:33

Aaah so you are saying that you thought you would lower yourself to the same perceived level by posting goady shit yourself

Yes!

Night Rufus Smile

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