The Brexit Arms

[BrexitArmsLandLady]

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Article 50 has been triggered (finally!).
Now we move onwards to the future 🍻

All welcome, as ever...

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Night charm

Charmageddon - couldn't of put it better myself.

I'm using some goady posts from the Brexit Arms threads as examples to show my children how not to behave when a democratic decision doesn't go your way.

In Redtoothbrush land, voting is not a black and white binary choice. Its one where its a bit more complex and it involves debate and a realisation that you need to do more than just stick your own interpretation on things.

Not to mention the bitter truth of the matter - The Great Repeal Act is fucked and going no where and its what hard Brexit relies on. A no deal Brexit could happen but not without huge political ramifications for whoever allows it.

When David Davis is saying that we need to reconsider the single market and the customs union you ask why HE had suddenly abandoned the idea of hard Brexit?

When Farage is saying 'we'll probably get a Norway style deal' even though apparently most people voted for hard brexit, you have to ask questions.

But hell that's what it says in the Labour manifesto.

It might do. Trouble is, it ain't possible for anyone to achieve.

Meh. Carry on as you were. You'll get it eventually.
You don't have a choice. Reality bites.

Meh. Carry on as you were. You'll get it eventually.
You don't have a choice. Reality bites.

I don't think you could possibly have been any more patronising or condescending Red.

Well done, good job.

👏 👏 👏

I think you are better off staying in your safe place Red where everyone thinks your the best thing since sliced bread. Your mask is slipping over here.

Charm, I've had 12 months of 'will of the people' and very little sleep in the last month.

I don't really care.

Its a relief to get it off my chest tbh.

I voted Labour in spite of Brexit, not because. I would have voted Lib Dems if they had a chance in my constituency, but they didn't. It was a bitter Tory-Labour contest in a very marginal seat. Interestingly, I live in a strongly Leave area and Labour won all of our local seats. Interpreting what that says about Brexit is impossible. How many, like me, want to Remain but didn't see our views meaningfully represented by either of our choices so went with the party that was best on everything else? How many went back to Labour (it's a traditionally Labour northern area, though my seat has always been a narrow contest) feeling confident they would pursue a full Brexit? I'd say it was very mixed here.

It's like interpreting the Leave vote last year - people voted for all kinds of options: a hard left Brexit, an extreme right Brexit, no more immigration, Norway-style...there was no clarification in the election campaign about what either party really wanted from it and why. It has been left open for voters to interpret any way they like.

It certainly looks like the hard Brexit option is very much in jeopardy, for which I am extremely grateful, but politics has lurched haphazardly in all kinds of directions over the past twelve months and who can say what is going to happen next or even what is happening now? The only thing that is certain is that nothing is either strong or stable now!

Hear hear. You can't extrapolate a desire for hard Brexit from the Labour vote. Strong remain areas in London have gone red as an anti Brexit vote against the Tories, it's clear. You can't say that suddenly everyone in Kensington has decided they are an arch leaver! My area, strongly remain and staunch labour has remained so. I voted Lib Dem but they weren't in the picture with Cons in second place 2015. Just not a realistic choice for the majority who do NOT endorse TMs vision of Brexit (or Britain).

I am relieved we are starting to hear some sanity returning over Brexit from lots of the MPs, hopefully by way of a cross party consensus.

Red most Brexiters want what is best for everyone as indeed do most Remainers. Labour have a more pragmatic approach to negotiating Brexit but it is not that different from the Conservative position. They have also committed to spending far more of the £350m on the bus on public services than the Conservatives. Taken together and looking at the priorities of voters stats it could be argued that by voting Labour people prioritised this over saving big business in the Brexit negotiations.

All we really know for sure is Brexit does actually mean Brexit, what kind of Brexit we get was always up for negotiation, so nothing has really changed. A hard Brexit is off the table, but that's probably a good thing, what's crystal clear though is the country is behind Brexit, if they weren't the libdems would have done much better than they did ( Nick Clegg losing his seat? ) so it's kind of business as usual.
( Although Brexit talks will probably take 150 years now. 😂 )

A still disagree with you that it's crystal clear the country is behind Brexit resolvedly - Lib Dems just weren't viable for a lot of people. Most of my remain voting friends would still love to see Brexit reversed but voted Labour.

I agree it's good hard Brexit it (hopefully) off the table. I heard John McDonnell talking about labours approach to Brexit negotiations early on election night and even as a remainder I could get behind it. Unilaterally agreeing EU citizens rights, prioritising the single market, a sensible discussion on managed migration with no arbitrary figures. Sounds like and opener for an eventual eea agreement to me and I'd be happy with that, and I expect a majority of the country would be.

You'd still piss off the hardline Brexiters but I think the politicians are realising you have to try and make the majority happy now.

surfer, no - it really isn't crystal clear that the country is behind Brexit! The Lib Dems were a vote for the Tories where I live; I couldn't risk it. I'm still entirely opposed to Brexit!

What's crystal clear though is the country is behind brexit

You might as well say the collapse of ukip means the country is not behind Brexit anymore.

I mean, I wouldn't say that, but if we are just making up stuff it works both ways, right?

"A hard Brexit is off the table, but that's probably a good thing"

Hallelujah!

I agree with histiny

It was not a brexit rerun however much the conservatives wanted it to be

Remainers were told constantly to move on, brexit was happening

Most of us accept that and voted for the party they wanted in power, due to very many things on each manifesto

It appears that some leavers cant move on, some seem so desperate to keep winning

Actually I agree that this time there has been a hell of lot of strategic voting going on.
I know we did. Looked at who cane second in our constituency that had a Tory MP and voted for that one. (Were not tory anymore btw).
Thats in a constituency that voted heavily for Brexit rather than remain and had been conservative for a quite a while....

I think it's far more complicated than any one issue, including Brexit.

I think in some places it was an anti Tory vote, in some it was a vote for labour policies, in some it was probably tribal politics coming in to play.

I notice YouGov (the polling company that pulled a blinder with their new model and called he hung parliament consistently in the weeks running up the election) have now posted a poll showing that it is now 51% remain to 49% leave.

I don't want another referendum. But honestly, another one with proper multiple options and non partisan explanations of exactly what they meant would be he only way to know exactly what people want.

And i dont mean charm

I know she is on a bloody wind up

I think you are better off staying in your safe place Red where everyone thinks your the best thing since sliced bread. Your mask is slipping over here.

There is absolutely no need for personal attacks, time4chocolate.

The cries of outrage when anyone who doesn't support Brexit has the temerity to post on a Brexit Arms speaks absolute volumes.

I got stuck with my vote this year

Most of the time i vote tory, but a very centrist tory

I felt it was going further right than i was happy with and i hate what they have done to education

So i thought i would vote lib dem, even though they have a fair few policies i hate and i dont want a 2nd referendum

But then i was torn because labour was going ahead with brexit and stood a slightly better chance of winning

I live in a very safe tory seat, not a hope of labour or lib dem winning so it really didnt matter which one i went for

I went with lib dem as the slightly better (to me) option

Well thank fuck i did....my blood pressure couldnt have taken it if i was then being told that i was now supporting brexit

We have already had to put chicken wire round the telly because i want to throw something at it whenever farage or trump speaks.

And gary off Geordie shore to be fair

The ukip vote has disappeared because it's not needed anymore.
A50 has been triggered and Brexit means Brexit whether it's May or Corbyn as PM. Both parties have stated in their manifestos that they'll end FOM ( for example ) so ukip voters are happy.

I'm still confident that TM will see this through successfully - & let's not forget, the EU want to get on with this & won't be happy with any more delays.

Brexit means Brexit means Brexit means Brexit means...

If we shut out eyes tightly and keep saying it everything will be ok...won't it?

No, there is no evidence that the general election vote was a resounding yes for brexit, you are just imagining things again surfer.

Twofingers - no there probably wasn't a need but I have posted a lot over the last 12 months and not once have I made a personal attack but I was mightily pissed off (and tired) with constantly being told what I am, what I stand for, how I voted makes me a this that and the other etc etc.

Also, a thought occurred to me yesterday the youth are now engaged in politics (which is a good thing) they use social media a lot and if mumsnet is anything to go by all they are seeing, by people of their parents age, is slagging off, name calling, if you voted for xxx you are [insert insult of choice] the result hasn't gone the way we want let's try and do something about it. That is not a good example to set. They are the ones that will be running this country when we are all 6ft under.

Has anyone stopped to think that maybe there is an expectation on Red to keep her threads running, maybe it might be nice if one of you offered to take on the mantel for a while and gave the poor woman a break - we all have busy lives.

The ukip vote has disappeared because it's not needed anymore.

Clearly UKIP don't think so. And Article 50 can be untriggered.

I don't see ho you're so confident that May can do anything, surferjet. She hasn't even got the deal with the DUP that she claimed was done and dusted.