Westministenders: Danger of "accidental" Brexit (whoops !) ?

[BigChocFrenzy]

i.e. Brexit without a deal - NOT intentionally so - due to UK govt incompetence and mutual UK/EU misunderstandings

The govt is proceeding from abysmal ignorance on a Brexit journey which may blunder into disaster.

Prominent Leave campaigner Richard North:

"The UK Government's narrative seems to rest on the belief that the EU will cave in under pressure, and is thus giving every sign that it is prepared to push negotiations to the wire.

If, on the other hand, the EU are determined not to budge, especially as, with their own White Paper on "The Future of Europe" triggering internal discussions unrelated to Brexit, they are not necessarily fully focused on the "British problem".

As a result, we could end up with an "accidental Brexit",
where the UK negotiators overplay their hand, ending up in the UK leaving without an agreement, forcing it to rely on WTO rules.

Most likely, it will take very little to convince the EU that Mrs May is bluffing – as the effect of the WTO option is likely to be disastrous for the UK economy.

We could thus have each side misreading each other, making the accidental Brexit all the more likely."

www.eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=86395

I don't intend to BUT will it be OK at any point in the next two years to say to those who voted to leave 'but this is what you wanted!'

After 9 months of 'this is democracy' 'get over it' remoaner' I need some schadenfreude.

Schadenfreude is the only thing keeping me going, poorboy. I'm almost as enthusiastic to start negotiations as the Brexiteers so I can laugh (bitterly) when the unicorn poo turns out to be just your common or garden bullshit. (I know that this does not make me big or grown-up, by the way, but I've had enough of that for now.)

Howabout should be able to have dual Scottish and FUKD (Former UK and its Dependencies, or alternatively Formerly United KingDom ) citizenship should she want it, once the Scottish electorate (including the 16 and 17 year olds and the EU citizens - and the English living in Scotland ) vote for independence

I wonder what the crest on the FUKD passport will be?

Yes lala although the very word schadenfreude could soon just become an EU conspiracy word according to the daily fail that is keeping the Proud Brits down!

Imagining the rage already when them damn EU fat cats refuse to GIVE US WOT WE DEMAND

pretty A turd?

Schadenfreude. Is this like the the French not having a word for Entrepeneur?

pretty It'll be a unicorn on top of a rainbow of course

Is this like the the French not having a word for Entrepreneur?

oh my word, is that really a thing? I shall have to tell my husband (whose official, French business status includes the word "entrepreneur").

Yes, all Commonwealth citizens currently in the UK can vote in British elections (council & parliamentary). They are only barred from voting in EU elections, as they do not have European rights.

I'm Australian, and I have always voted in European elections. I just quickly googled (wouldn't want to be guilty of voter fraud!) and confirmed.

www.europarl.org.uk/en/your-meps/european_elections/can_i_vote.html

But just to re

Sorry, something weird happened while I was posting.

Just to reassure, I voted to Remain. I'm an immigrant, after all!

Hashi - you forgot about the wonderfully English Victoria Sponge which should be represented somewhere. At least on a passport, you can have it there permanently, even if you can't eat it.

There are those who contend that erosion of Scottish sovereignty happened in 1707.

At this point, Scotland is to all intents and purposes invisible and unheard by WM. TM has a majority and does not need Scottish votes.

What does UK citizenship really mean for Scots in these circumstances?

Many, many Commonwealth citizens have absolutely no personal links with the UK and no sentimental attachment either. The Commonwealth is a totally abstract concept.

Delurking to say entrepreneur is a French word. ( From the verb entreprendre, to undertake)

I think the negotations will stir up even more hatred against Europe and EU immigrants in the UK. Many (not all I know) who voted Brexit are not that bright and will believe any headline DM cooks up and its a dangerous paper.

Delurking to say entrepreneur is a French word.

I made the original comment about Entrepreneur because I believe it was George Dubya Bush who made the comment!
We thought he was bad, who would have thought we would get someone worse!

Lets remember that the real blame for Brexit must go to Cameron, May and the 40 odd Tory Bastards (in John Major's words) who have been 'banging on about Europe'. These 40 or so are the real culprits, who will smash the country, and being wealthy won't care. Let's not blame the average Leaver, who genuinely wanted more money for the NHS, or was living in a part of the country which was neglected and wanted to send a message to Westminster, not thinking that Leave would win.

Let's give a special portion of blame to Farage, who admitted that if the vote had gone the other way, would not have given up, and is now making noises about leaving the country.

Totally agree, Peregrina. It is shocking how many lies Leave told. I'm reminded that the morning of the 24th, Vine told Gove that he was 'only meant to blow the bloody doors off.' They didn't expect to win, just treated it as some public school debate. Except the consequences are people's lives.

Although I primarily blame politicians for this utter fiasco, I am finding it really hard not to blame leave voters too. Where was their awareness of credibility, their ability to question? The 350 million was always ridiculous and was repeatedly questioned before the vote, as was the assertion that the problems in the NHS were due to immigrants. People saw what they wanted to see which was "none of this is our fault, we can solve it by kicking immigrants out.". Absolutely typical British reaction. Why face your problems when you can blame someone else?

I'm biased though- all the leavers I know are comfortably off and 80% voted for entirely racist reasons. I am very angry with them and keep telling myself that their behaviour does not extend to every leave voter, but sometimes the red mist descends!

I do think there is a hell of a lot of racism in this country that we don't want to admit to, though.

I will say that the reasoned arguments from leave voters on this thread has helped to remind me that they're not all racist arsehats, so thank you!

Peregrina I can't believe how intelligent Dubya sounds in comparison to Trump [holds head in her hands]

Bolshy That is the problem when 48% of the population get silenced. The racist arse hates are the only ones being heard.....

Perhaps just as some demand all Muslims speak out against fundlementalist islamist behaviours to show they are against it and explain that the tiny minority are not representative of them. Any anti eu behaviours that result in damage to or lose of life should result in prominent leavers having to act as representives of the leave campaign. They should have to say not in my name

They should become responsible for the actions of others who hold a twisted version of their beliefs. It's only fair as I suspect they are the ones that demand it of others

The "they don't even have a word for for entrepreneur" quote is attributed to Dubya via Blair and I think Shirley Williams but according to Snopes he never actually said it that can actually be confirmed definitively