Westministenders: Danger of "accidental" Brexit (whoops !) ?

[BigChocFrenzy]

i.e. Brexit without a deal - NOT intentionally so - due to UK govt incompetence and mutual UK/EU misunderstandings

The govt is proceeding from abysmal ignorance on a Brexit journey which may blunder into disaster.

Prominent Leave campaigner Richard North:

"The UK Government's narrative seems to rest on the belief that the EU will cave in under pressure, and is thus giving every sign that it is prepared to push negotiations to the wire.

If, on the other hand, the EU are determined not to budge, especially as, with their own White Paper on "The Future of Europe" triggering internal discussions unrelated to Brexit, they are not necessarily fully focused on the "British problem".

As a result, we could end up with an "accidental Brexit",
where the UK negotiators overplay their hand, ending up in the UK leaving without an agreement, forcing it to rely on WTO rules.

Most likely, it will take very little to convince the EU that Mrs May is bluffing – as the effect of the WTO option is likely to be disastrous for the UK economy.

We could thus have each side misreading each other, making the accidental Brexit all the more likely."

www.eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=86395

Love the tweet of Barnier et son équipe.

I wonder what Theresa's équipe will look like? Does she even have an équipe yet? Or is it just TM and her 3 Stooges?

Sad

For info

www.ucl.ac.uk/news/news-articles/0317/28032017-article-50-ucl-provost-statement/

howabout do you mean it is based on Commonwealth citizens previously having had UK citizenship rights because they no longer do. Several Indian students at my university could and did vote however they have no right to remain after their studies finish.

Hashi, the government website states that they had to be resident (at the time of the EU referendum, I assume) though: 'British, Irish and Commonwealth citizens aged 18 or over who are resident in the UK or Gibraltar will be eligible to vote.' The 15-year rule applied for UK citizens resident overseas, but not to Irish and Commonwealth citizens.

howabout, you had said 'non-UK citizens did not get a vote in the EUref on UK membership of the EU '. This is the statement that Hashi and I picked you up on, as it is wrong.

Official EU response contains 2 key points for me:

• The UK will be able to revoke its notification of article 50 but this must be “subject to conditions set by all EU27 so they cannot be used as a procedural device or abused in an attempt to improve the actual terms of the United Kingdom’s membership”.

< so revocation is possible, but only with E27 agreement >

• without a withdrawal agreement on citizens’ rights, the financial settlement and the border in Ireland the UK “would exit automatically the union on 30 March 2019 and this in a disorderly manner”.

< so the EU won't allow May to have a (Home Counties) deal that buggers NI, RoI or the GFA >

That cow, Merkel. She's administering a punishment beating determined to make life difficult for us.

Oh do give over, lala. You voted for this 'difficulty'.

just residual rights from historic links in the Commenwealth not full citizenship rights. Fickle agreed if you want to split hairs on residual Commonwealth rights.

"The UK will be able to revoke its notification of article 50"

I think the spirit of this is that they will allow us to revoke A50, but only if we have decided to remain after all, not to gain more time. I think this is good news.

twofingers - I was parodying a Brexiteer response. Obviously I made a very convincing job of it .

Bigchoc if only the EU had clarified A50 revocability before - would have avoided all the Sumpreme Court shenanigans - have they consulted the ECJ?

Sorry, lala! I can't tell the difference between truth and bollocks these days

Yes fickle, I missed the 'some Irish citizens' from that post

There were no non EU - yes there were - Oh, you're just splitting hairs now . Welcome to Brexit, where facts don't matter.

Interesting discussion on differing definitions of citizenship and neatly illustrates the point I was making about the need to explain and understand it fully, which neither the EU nor the UK ever did in the context of FoM.

Donald Tusk‏
@eucopresident
After nine months the UK has delivered. #Brexit
1:28 pm · 29 Mar 2017

< or wtf have you done in all that time ? >

It's been a difficult day for all of us, twofingers, I'm sure you would have seen through my not-very-funny attempt at humour otherwise.

howabout - the Jolyon Maugham case seeks to establish whether A50 is revocable or not. It is currently waiting to be heard in Dublin and will be, he hopes, referred immediately to the ECJ which is the only institution that can ultimately rule on this. Until then, I suspect that all the pronouncements on the reversibility of A50 are simply speculation (although I'm glad to hear that more and more bigwigs think it might be).

a new relationship, a deep and special partnership, between the EU and the UK.

What is it with this yearning for 'special' relationships?

It's like toddlers claiming that mummy loves them the most.

math I read a 'deep and special partnership' to mean 'we want to fuck you'

Hashi!
That really made me laugh!

Good news that the EU is also prioritising a withdrawal agreement on citizens’ rights, the financial settlement and the border in Ireland.

48% The New European You tube channel just launched:
www.youtube.com/channel/UCZi-Yd5IQD0t_PrhzkYVANg

non-UK citizens did not get a vote in the EUref on UK membership of the EU

Not only are you wrong on this howabout as has already been pointed out, but two EU countries, namely Cyprus and Malta, are part of the Commonwealth, and their UK resident citizens were allowed to vote by virtue of said Commonwealth membership.

TM on BBC talking positive.

I would just like to confirm that, when I was a Commonwealth citizen, I was able to vote in general and local elections from the time I arrived here as a university student - at which time I had no other rights of residency (beyond a student visa) etc.

I can also confirm that for the referendum, Commomwealth citizens such as my Indian colleague (work permit or whatever it's called these days, no other residency rights) were allowed to vote.

TM on BBC talking positive.

We need a lot more than talk now.

Hic!