Westministenders: Danger of "accidental" Brexit (whoops !) ?

[BigChocFrenzy]

i.e. Brexit without a deal - NOT intentionally so - due to UK govt incompetence and mutual UK/EU misunderstandings

The govt is proceeding from abysmal ignorance on a Brexit journey which may blunder into disaster.

Prominent Leave campaigner Richard North:

"The UK Government's narrative seems to rest on the belief that the EU will cave in under pressure, and is thus giving every sign that it is prepared to push negotiations to the wire.

If, on the other hand, the EU are determined not to budge, especially as, with their own White Paper on "The Future of Europe" triggering internal discussions unrelated to Brexit, they are not necessarily fully focused on the "British problem".

As a result, we could end up with an "accidental Brexit",
where the UK negotiators overplay their hand, ending up in the UK leaving without an agreement, forcing it to rely on WTO rules.

Most likely, it will take very little to convince the EU that Mrs May is bluffing – as the effect of the WTO option is likely to be disastrous for the UK economy.

We could thus have each side misreading each other, making the accidental Brexit all the more likely."

www.eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=86395

TM on BBC talking positive.

Funny way to spell bollocks

Thought I'd post this here too. The Daily Politics figures on net contributors to the EU budget look at the bald contribution, not taking account the proportion per person. It didn't do any reports on what the returns are, either.

inews.co.uk/explainers/charts/much-uk-pays-eu-much-get-back/

I can't seem to enlarge it, so you'll have to have good eyesight. The source is the European Commission.

If you look at payment per person the UK is the 8th net contributor. Only above Italy and Ireland as net contributors. The returns look interesting, too.

Of course none of it takes into account the returns in business. The dividend, if you like.

From the BBC report Theresa May says she cannot guarantee immigration will be significantly lower after Brexit

Given that reducing immigration was a key demand in many peoples' vote, you have to wonder whether this Brexit nonsense is really worth the time and expense it will cause.

But she will be able to chose who is coming!
Somthe highly qualified thatbthe uk, the most qualified at all to all the menial jobs. Well everyone as before BUT there will the felling that it's fairer and that the uk is in control.

Much much better

The question is, will the well qualified want to come?

I've just caught a clip on the Channel 4 News repeat of David Cameron leavesplaining Brexit to an audience in Ukraine ("We looked at the EU flag and we decided we didn't like the EU flag"). How dare he be so flippant about this catastrophe . How dare he parade around the world making out it's just some little local misunderstanding . I'd forgotten how much I despise him.

Ha well, maybe not if they are badly treated, if they are told they cant received any benefits (I'm thinking in work benefits for those with the lowest wages). Or if they don't have any access or a restricted one to the NHS.

Fwiw, my parents have already received a letter from the NHS about some treatment they are receiving. There was a comment at the bottom saying that 'there might be some charges associated with the treatment due to their nationality' (or whatever way it was worded)

I note the EU leak states a transitional deal 'should not exceed three years'.

Which is about 4-7 years less than we would need to secure an FTA deal.

Unless the EU thinks negotiations can be somehow miraculously be condensed into 3 years, either EEA/EFTA or WTO sudden death here we come...

If the EU behaved like WM.

I bet that May is really annoyed that the EU is publishing information.

The Guardian's annotated A50 letter.

I honestly think that to have even a half way hope of getting a decent deal we need to get rid of May, Johnson and Davis. My money would be on Hammond being able to make a positive contribution and if he had any sense, involving the best brains from other parties.

Can't believe we are still having to argue with halfwits about whether EU citizenship exists.

From the horse's mouth (ec.europa.eu):

What is EU citizenship?
Any person who holds the nationality of an EU country is automatically also an EU citizen. EU citizenship is additional to and does not replace national citizenship.
Citizenship of the Union is conferred directly on every EU citizen by the Treaty on the Functioning of the EU.
What rights do you have as an EU citizen?
The Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union entails the right:
To non-discrimination on the basis of nationality when the Treaty applies
To move and reside freely within the EU
To vote for and stand as a candidate in European Parliament and municipal elections
To be protected by the diplomatic and consular authorities of any other EU country
To petition the European Parliament and complain to the European Ombudsman
To contact and receive a response from any EU institution in one of the EU's official languages
To access European Parliament, European Commission and Council documents under certain conditions
EU citizens also have the right to equal access to the EU Civil Service.

Grumpy citizen of nowhere here, having the misfortune of spending this week of all weeks in little England. Can't wait to get back to the EU.

Wow Peregrina never would have predicted there was so much resentment about preferential voting rights for Commonwealth members or are we still just splitting hairs about a tangential issue to my central contention re potential loss of UK citizenship for Scots if Independence happens. At least Commonwealth members voting have an understanding of what erosion of citizenship over time looks like.

I suspect they are also more than averagely aware of what creeping erosion of sovereignty and the reverse looks like and will likely have many generations of links with the UK.

misti try some distraction. at the moment I'm swearing at masterchef and everyone's poor pronunciation of chorizo. DH says its a nice difference from my swearing at politicians.

RTB, do you have a straw in your stout?

howabout nice attempt to distract from your incorrect statement that no non UK people voted in the referendum.

misti try some distraction. at the moment I'm swearing at masterchef and everyone's poor pronunciation of chorizo. DH says its a nice difference from my swearing at politicians.

I just got back from work to my hotel (it's in Cambridge so at least it's in remainland even if surrounded by brexit bog). Might go down to the bar and get drunk at someone else's expense.

All the staff here seem to be European.

Not sure what you are trying to say there howabout but if Scotland becomes Independent and Ireland unites, there won't be such a thing as UK citizenship.

I bet that May is really annoyed that the EU is publishing information.

It's a brilliant strategy, almost goading the UK.

I love that we're going to get a blow by blow account of negotiations from the EU, but our own government won't tell us everything.

If it weren't so serious I would be settling down to enjoy the spectacle.

Misti absolutely huge EU population in Cambridge (and non EU immigration too), and interestingly the highest remain vote % outside London at 75% for central Cambridge area. Great place to get drunk tonight!

Misti absolutely huge EU population in Cambridge (and non EU immigration too), and interestingly the highest remain vote % outside London at 75% for central Cambridge area.

Yeah, one of my employer's main sites is near here. Lots of EU employees. The working language at our tech centre is mostly Spanish these days ...

The whole thing is a fucking disaster. My teenagers, who are pretty standard middle class, educated French teenagers, might have been considering applying to study here in Cambridge if it hadn't been for brexit. But in the last year or two, that's gone from being a serious proposition to a non-starter. They see the UK as backward, racist etc :( -- obviously Cambridge very much isn't any of those things, but the UK's international reputation has taken a tremendous hit.

Did everyone see Tusk's speech? Tearjerker alert at the end

I read it at work - had to stare out of the window for a bit I do realise he's a politician and knew what he was doing but...