Westministenders: Brexit Britain = Gridlock Britain ?

[BigChocFrenzy]

We keep getting told the Uk can get a deal like Canada, Turkey or other non-EU countries have, without FOM.
Those deals do not provide the same privileges as EU members:
They have quotas, restrictions and must obey EU regulations

e.g. After CETA, Ron Davidson, head of international trade for the Canadian Meat Council stated:
"We do not have what we would call commercially viable access to the European market".

The deal with Turkey abolished tariffs, but did not give free acess. This is what that means:

www.ft.com/content/b4458652-f42d-11e6-8758-6876151821a6

"On a recent Saturday at the Kapikule border crossing, about 30 minutes drive from the Turkish city of Edirne, a line of trucks 4km long stretched along the highway, inching along glacially towards the Bulgarian checkpoints.
"Today is a good day", said Ibrahim Kurtukcu, a 42-year trucker who had been waiting 14 hours.
"Last week the line was 7km long".
The record is 17km. It can take up to 30 hours to get through to the other side."

Of course, UK ports (and French ports) do not have the capacity, facilities, storage space or trained staff to handle customs processing of the vast amount of British exports & imports.

Building this additional capacity - where ? - would take several years and there are no signs that even the planning stage has started.

17 beats 16. Simples.
No marks for you either, because that wasn't the question.

Apparently two Tory MPs did support the meaningful vote amendment: Alex Chalk and Tania Mathias, I salute your integrity .

Bloody HoC. Bloody bastards.

IndyRef2 is bad news too. My village still has loads of signs up (and loads of folk not speaking) from the last one

If IndyRef1 was 'just advisory' and Brexit was 'just advisory' and IndyRef2 will be 'just advisory' what is the ruddy point?

It's all window dressing so the politicians can do what they wish and then dress it up as 'the will of the people'.

A few questions for the more knowledgeable:

Is there any way of finding out how your MP voted?
Do you think that Scotland will vote for independence? Do we know what plans Ns has in case she wins?
If the shit hits the fan in Northern Ireland (economic effects of Brexit, hard border reinstated) and seeing the recent changes in government there, could there be a referendum there, too? For independence or joining the Republic of Ireland? Wondering if Sinn Fein are sitting back and waiting for this car crash to deliver them everything they want.

Just wondering if Brexit could really see the end of the UK. Also Spain could get Gibraltar without lifting a finger. All courtesy of Brexit

Ironically one of the leavers' mantras is "the EU will collapse soon". I think it's looking more likely that the UK won't exist as it is now in 5 or 10 years.

Wales what were you thinking

Six Labour MPS voted to use EU citizens as bargaining chips:

Frank Fields
Gisela Stuart
Kate Hoey
Kelvin Hopkins
Rob Marris
Graham Stringer

17 beats 16. Simples.
No marks for you either, because that wasn't the question.

Let me repeat myself:

Children can't vote, non-citizens can't vote, those who can't be bothered to vote don't count.

AND of those who could be bothered to vote, 17 million voted Leave, 16 million voted Remain.

Which bit of that is wrong? I though Remainers liked facts. But they clearly don't like democracy.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think I am, wasn't Gisela Stuart one who said that the rights of EU citizens were secure?

Preach to Theresa May comfort - she is is the one who came out with the 65 million figure.

Fuck it I can't be arsed.

Apparently two Tory MPs did support the meaningful vote amendment: Alex Chalk and Tania Mathias, I salute your integrity flowers.

I think that's the wrong way round: according to Twitter, they voted for the EU citizens amendment but against the meaningful vote one.

The six Labour MPs listed above voted with the government on both amendments.

Gisela Stuart clearly said that the rights of EU citizens in the uk were secure, but that was really only bus talk. Like £350m which could go to the NHS, or staying in the single market.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think I am, wasn't Gisela Stuart one who said that the rights of EU citizens were secure

These are people with no integrity whatsoever. I hope they get their comeuppance at the next election.

oh its all okay don't worry - BoJo has a plan - a new royal yacht and this will pave the way to all sorts of lovely trade deals !

see www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2017/mar/13/article-50-commons-lords-brexit-sturgeon-speech-corbyn-clarifies-his-position-on-second-scottish-independence-referendum-saying-hes-opposed-politics-live

Gisela Stuart may well get her comeuppance, because I believe her seat is due to disappear. I strongly suspect that she won't find herself selected for anywhere. Kate Hoey is also likely to find herself deselected.

Frank Fields comes from a different standpoint, so I would be interested to see his reasons. I don't know the other names.

Wasn't Corbyn outside Parliament protesting about something or other?

Just as an aside - a relative in Copeland is fighting hard to save the local hospital still. Not one who would ever vote Tory, but I wonder how the Tory voters there feel now with the A & E due to move to Carlisle?

They won't care peregrina!

They can either afford private care or think the cuts don't apply to the "likes of them"
😞😡

Good. The elected chamber has reflected the will of the majority of the electorate who took the time and made the effort to vote. Those outside the UK and EU nationals here couldn't vote, and rightly so. So, as Confort said up thread, 17 beats 16.
The MPs have voted in favour of democracy.
Now, we just need that knighthood for Nigel Farage and an agreement on our Independence Day.
🍺
And not for one minute do I think that Scotland will vote for independence.

I'm wondering what has been going behind the scene and in the Tory party.
Clearly TM is actually quite good at bringing everyone together (and using a whip to make herself heard and followed??).

So, HoC has voted again for the same bill.....

We've just given the whole future of the uk to TM, a PM that has never been elected and one that has still hasn't told the country what is the cunning plan....
We might as well have handed our heads to her to do as she pleases.
Actually we have...

The elected chamber has reflected the will of the majority of the electorate who took the time and made the effort to vote.
A real reflection should have seen the ire being much closer than what it has been.
Brexit has been 'won' with just over 50% and less than 52%.
I haven't seen that reflected in the vote at all actually.

Securing the right to remain for EU citizens living in the country has absolutely bugger all to do with upholding the will of the people (I don't remember being asked that - maybe your ballot paper was different to mine) and everything to do with decency, that much trumpeted uniquely British value.

I look forward to Boris Johnson getting his new royal yacht Britannia built - with the order going to a German or South Korean shipyard - more likely the latter.

*Green" yes I think some really clever whipping has been done and promises made. Clarke had no reason not to vote against and the fact that he didn't (or abstained) makes me think that there might have been some behind the scenes commitment to something sensible (EFTA with EEA transition for example) - or am I just clutching at straws?

Also the poll have always said that the vast majority of people (around 80% so really much much more than the Brexit vote) do not want to kick eu crizens already in the country.
So why has the HoC not reflected that reality too? They could have voted to trigger Art50 AND protect the rights of EU citizens as the 'will of the people' clearly wanted.

As for having no say into what agreement is being signed... Ee are a parliamentary democracy. That means that MP do have the power, not the PM. But somehow, they've just given up on their rights and duties.
Who on earth does that?

Peregina the yacht is going to the land of unicorns to sell them pasties and stilton and come back with pots of gold