London 25 March

[Niamer]

See you there!

drinkswine People in mainland Europe do not have to pay for schooling! It is free, just like here. British citizens who live in EU member states also get to use schooling in other states for free.

From a purely selfish point of view, I want my children to have the same freedoms to seek work in Europe that I had. However, in light of the astonishing hard Brexit nonsense the government are spouting, I will settle for an arrangement that ensures we keep worker and environment legislation at the same standards as the EU and do not trash the economy for decades.

ooh actually I must fact check myself - that should be
Codex Alimentarius Commission, a UN and World Health Organisation body

Anyway, I am very much looking forward to the march.

You'll love the Codex Alimentarius, the UN body which developed the rule and which the EU copy and pasted into trading law, and which we will still abide by when trading with 187 countries across the world.

Not getting your logic there. One minute you're telling us that the EU is great because it means we can trade with 28 nations. The next you are reminding us that we can trade with 187 countries anyway. Why do remainers seem to think that trade=EU-only, have they forgotten that a ROTW exists?

In other news, would anyone like to talk about the absolute disaster we were going to face if we voted Brexit. Last time I looked the economy was doing quite nicely and the FTSE index (that's your pension) had soared.

Purits I think the logic is that if we leave the EU we will still be bound by many of the same rules. So we won't be 'taking back control'

I don't know if you have noticed but we haven't left the EU yet - we haven't officially told them that we want to. We don't know how the economy will do. We do know that there are concerns about the car industry. Admittedly, with overproduction in Europe generally a shakedown could have occurred, which might or might not have been in Britain.

We do know that in the area of scientific and medical research, projects and staff are going elsewhere already. This was an area in which we were particularly successful so it's worrying.

Despite the economy apparently doing nicely, somehow there doesn't seem to be money for the NHS. Why not? That is one tangible thing that people voted for.

Who wasn't allowed a vote?

Me, and many others like me. Despite being Britons who are directly affected by the outcome.

Of course, you know this already.

Don't know if I will get to the march unfortunately, due to work travel plans, but I shall be with you in spirit ;)

You do realise that we are still in the eu. So I am understanding your meaning people from Main land Europe? Who at home have to pay for schooling, medical care etc . But hey its for free here.

How much wine have you drunk wine? Since when does the UK have the only free education system in the EU? Have I imagined the last 8 years of ds's education in Italy? Which has all been totally free including 3 years kindergarten and in which he has never been in a class of more than 20 kids. In the centre of the capital city. Granted we have to pay for paper, books, pens and toilet roll but I will take that and the small class sizes and the 2 teachers per class plus the teaching assistants for kids who need assistance happily over the disgraceful reallocation of funds/cuts and the huge class sizes in the U.K. currently thank you very much. In fact one of the many factors we considered when deciding which of our 2 countries to bring ds up in was the preferable state of the education system in Italy (which is under pressure and far from perfect, not saying is Utopia) compared with the one in the U.K.

So, so sick of the bullshit lies popping up on these forums, seemingly increased in volume in recent days for whatever reason, regarding the EU. Surely if you believe in your case for Brexit you don't need to resort to these falsehoods to underline your reasons for doing so. At best this is just ignorance, at worst it is deliberate propaganda.

So I am understanding your meaning people from Main land Europe? Who at home have to pay for schooling, medical care etc . But hey its for free here.

What? This is deranged. You pay for the NHS and schools via taxation, just like everywhere else.

money for the NHS ... That is one tangible thing that people voted for.

Is that a reference to Boris and his bus? I didn't vote for that reason. I don't know anyone who did. It was discussed extensively at the time and debunked - it was a case of 'lies, damn lies and statistics' like an awful lot of electioneering. I am grown-up enough to spot spin when I see it.

I think it's fair to say that some people certainly did vote for the NHS - even if you didn't personally.

purits I most certainly do understand we can trade with the ROTW because I am out there doing it which is why I understand that a hard Brexit will be a disaster because we will lose the sources of our competitive advantage. You do of course realise that 147 countries will be looking for advantageous trade deals with us, which translates to getting the goods and services currently mainly services and high end tech and scientific products, both arising from our involvement in EU networks, they want to buy as well as selling us the goods and services we want to buy but if we have nothing they want to buy that just translates to exploiting our markets, and possibly with other demands as well in terms of work visas for their nationals etc..... We will be one small country that has hobbled its competitive advantage and with limited trade negotiation capabilities. I would be absolutely delighted if you can highlight exactly what UKPLCs marketing strategy to the rest of the world will be post a hard Brexit?

Yes, thanks Peregrina.

We will still follow the same rules on banana appearance after we leave the EU.

Purits on your FTSE "soaring" point, it might be helpful to think of it:

FTSE100 index companies make a lot of their money outside the UK. Movements in the £ means movements in the value (in £) of that overseas money they make. This directly affects their share price (and so the FTSE indexes)

It's like a seesaw.
Pound goes down (it has against the US$ and the EUR, a lot, since the ref), and FTSE100 goes up.
Pound goes up, FTSE100 goes down.

Share prices of companies making their money in the UK (lots of them in the FTSE250 too) have generally fallen since the ref. Those making their money mainly overseas have generally risen.

In general both types have fallen in dollar terms. (i.e. if you hack out the movement in the pound, the FTSE indexes have fallen since the Brexit referendum)

Further reading here and here if anyone wants it.

Inflation may have gone up to 3.3% here. This is a complete diversion so very happy to resurrect the economic effects thread for more discussion.

And if any experienced marchers do have how-to tips for protest signs, I would be delighted to hear em.

I rly like the style of these and actually this is useful.

can you tell I am excited about making the sign

We will still follow the same rules on banana appearance after we leave the EU.

I never understood why anyone believed Boris Johnson's silly nonsense about bananas. How many people have been to Spain or Italy and come back raving about the gnarly fruit and veg that they buy there (as a sign that they are locally produced and more authentic?) If it's allowed in Spain and Italy, why isn't it here? Because it is, and Boris is and was Bananas himself.

This is one of those weird virtue signalling marches with everyone marching for whatever they feel like and thus feeling virtuous.

A meaningful protest march needs an actual real (and plausible) agenda. Something that politicians may look at and possibly do something about.

Still I guess it is better than 'liking' some meaningless platitude on facebook or instagram.

Thanks for the patronising economics lecture Anlaf, I do know how exchange rates work. China has made a fortune in recent years out of manipulating their forex rate.

Whatwouldrondo We will be one small country...
We are the world's fifth largest economy. I do fear that Remainers have been brainwashed into thinking that we cannot cope without the EU.

It will tell Theresa May and her three stooges that 48% of the population can't be forgotten.

We are the world's fifth largest economy.
We were this time last year. We have now been overtaken by France and India - much to the delight of the latter, who are quietly rejoicing at sticking it to the old Colonial Masters.

Apologies if it came across as patronising purits, it's just that your original comment sounded like you'd thought the ftse going up was a good thing. Obviously not.

Anyway, if you want to talk about economics, can we do it on the tother thread? we are no longer the 5th largest economy I am sure you don't want to keep bumping the thread for potential marchers to see...

This is one of those weird virtue signalling marches with everyone marching for whatever they feel like

For clarity, I think everyone is marching because they want to remain in the EU, or secure an arrangement which retains the benefits of EU membership as far as possible. Those benefits are many and as it stands we our government plans to chuck all of them in the bin.

Righto .
My friend has to pay for all their kids books, text books etc
Over here we don't, Christ some kids can't be arsed buying a 19p biro to take to school
Tourist seem to think that health care in this country is free. No it's not . We pay our taxes for health care and education. Health tourism is killing this country .
Immigration while building this country is also killing it and you have to draw a line.
And yes last time I checked we are still in the EU.
We need to be able to govern our own country and not be another German puppet.

I only had 1 glass

Health tourism is negligible. However, immigrants are propping up the Health System. Still, when we have left, we will have neither unless we pay an arm and a leg for it.

I would be more than happy to copy the German health system - I hear it's very good.

Many European schools require parents to supply exercise books etc, but usually poorer families get grants for this. And there are no uniform costs. My bill for school supplies for my 14 year old in middle school is about €100 a year; I have UK friends with kids in ordinary state schools whose uniform bill is 3 times that much!

We pay for our healthcare out of taxation just like you do - here there is a hypothecated contribution of 8% of salary paid by all workers and self-employed people.

Health tourism is killing this country

What does this have to do with a thread about brexit/ the EU?

People from the EU are either entitled to NHS care (if they are residents) or use their EHIC, just like you do if you have to get treatment while on holiday in Europe. This is not health tourism; it's unlikely that anyone with an EHIC would pitch up in the UK for emergency care if they could get treatment at generally better and less crowded facilities just across the channel in France and the Netherlands.

The NHS is a net gainer from EU immigration - it employs young healthy people trained at considerable expense in other EU countries, and who are required to meet the healthcare needs of an ageing native population.

Health tourism? Which accounts for 0.25% of NHS expenditure?
That's what's killing this country is it?

I really want to go!
But no idea how to get there and avoid the crowds...