Westministers: The Lords Strike Back

[RedToothBrush]

This needs no fanfare or lengthy post. Just this:

The Lords are demanding amendments unilateral protection for EU citizens.

Labour was split 358 for an amendment to 256 against.

This is after Amber Rudd had tried to reassure the Lords by writing a letter assuring peers that EU citizens would be treated with the utmost respect.

Utmost respect = an amendment to guarantee unilateral support.

Today is a good day. It should have been done in the first place.

Bye slippery

Take care

Nope... according to woman you are "fetishising" over a war memorial.

Civil Servants are calling the A50 paperwork empire 2.0, but ok. Leave has nothing to do with a harking back to the "glory days"
🤔

Those civil servants are probably disgruntled remoaners like you

I quote from articles by the Norths and by Booker etc to redress the balance in fact-based debate.
I feel it important we hear from Leavers who are knowledgeable about trade & economics, even when we disagree with their motivations and aims:
There are a few around not relying on flagwaving / unicorns / squirrels

I didn't read it that way

Although it is worth pointing out many WW1 veterans refused to have anything to do with such monuments.

If you find comfort in them that's fine

It's also ok if you don't

The thing is that whether they are trolls exploiting the fact or Brit Brexit voters, an ignorance of the realities of British history along with the legacy of illusions of superiority and sense of entitlement and a tendancy to look back at the past through rose tinted specs, that our colonial history has left our culture and government, especially in the older generation, was a factor in the Brexit vote, as well as an issue in our relations with the rest of the world. I have no ntention of letting anyone close down or drown out the debate on the thread but I think it is actually useful to get it out in the open and expose it.

On the same theme really as well as the £60bn for Brexit, Hammond has put aside £350m for Free Schools with the government paving the way for that money to go to schools that select on ability /faith. This at a time when existing schools are facing draconian cuts, in some inner city areas of London such as Lewisham (not exactly metropolitan elite) these amount to over £600 per child. www.schoolcuts.org.uk/#/

We have a new Westminsters thread:

https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eureferendumm2016/2871572-Westminster-Brexit-is-the-hard-rights-weapon-of-mass-distraction?watched=1

Norths articles are eye opening

Ok I don't share his views but his disgust st TMs version of brexit is one I hope lots of leavers share

Well the privatisation of education and the NHS is happening

No point denying that anymore

And with no decent opposition we are basically screwed

Ok well there is no way anyone with a brain is going to tell you if they are experts in these things in case you find out who they are. Particularly as you seem to advocate "guilt by association" on leave voters.

You seem like an organised group of disgruntled activists and I am surprised (or not) that mumsnet are letting you get away with it.

Scrap that comment. What a nasty trolling post, knickers truly in a twist......

Slippery If you care to go back over the last nine months of threads you will see that they contain a balanced debate that many people find informative and useful, something that Mumsnet Towers have commented on in the past. There may be a core of regular posters but there are many who visit and who are welcomed to have a civilised debate whatever their views. However hours at the coal face of avoiding debate, trying to drown it out for others and attacking other posters not their argument does tend to provoke suspicion that civilised debate is not on a poster's agenda

"Ok well there is no way anyone with a brain is going to tell you if they are experts in these things in case you find out who they are"

This is the wonderful thing about an anonymous forum. Nobody can be swayed by anyone's credentials - it's all about the quality of the argument on the page. Or the lack of it.

I think a good way of dealing with the more obvious visitors now who are bringing nothing new except random anger is just to refer them back to the 27m posts where this has already been discussed in detail.

Disgruntled?
You bet!
Activist?
Hardly! but I may well be one by the end of trump and TMs terms of office
And - whilst I still can! - I am exercising my right to free speech
Most rabid leavers find those things intolerable sadly - which says far more about them than me

Bye slippery!!!

Hashi
That's the odd thing isn't it?

We are berated as remoaners and yet THEY are the ones frothing at the mouth in rage

You won!

Be happy!

It's also worth pointing out that saying 'you say all leavers are racist' unfoundedly then later frothing with 'most of you aren't even British' speaks volumes

"I'm not racist!!" Leavers bleat
"I just happen to share the views of rabidly right wing racist bigots. It's a total coincidence!!"

Ffs, it's been 9 months since the ref.
At what point is this tired & pathetic rhetoric going to stop?

I (and others) do not 'share the views of rabidly right wing racist bigots'.

I simply voted in one vote.
A vote to Leave the EU.
In what actual, tangible way is this a 'rabidly right wing & racist, bigoted' choice?

vocal and illiberal lefties

It baffles me how people like John Major and Michael Heseltine can be described thus.

In the meantime, Britain maintained a liberal democracy for its own citizens, and fought to free Europe from both Nazi and Soviet tyranny.

Stop right there. We fought on the same side as the Soviet Union, conveniently overlooking Stalin's atrocities.

Off to the new thread now.

In what actual, tangible way is this a 'rabidly right wing & racist, bigoted' choice?

Sadly, the way Theresa May has chosen to implement it, most certainly is.

It's also worth pointing out that saying 'you say all leavers are racist' unfoundedly then later frothing with 'most of you aren't even British' speaks volumes

Very hard to maintain the high ground

I dont think all leavers are racist bigots

Cheers BigChocFrenzy 'Nevertheless, She Persisted' t shirt on its way to your bunker.

Any one else look back fondly to this time last year?

Adapted Atticus Finch:
“I wanted you to see what real courage is, instead of getting the idea that courage is a man with a Daily Mail in his hand. It's when you know you've lost before you begin, but you begin anyway and see it through no matter what."