Westministers: The Lords Strike Back

[RedToothBrush]

This needs no fanfare or lengthy post. Just this:

The Lords are demanding amendments unilateral protection for EU citizens.

Labour was split 358 for an amendment to 256 against.

This is after Amber Rudd had tried to reassure the Lords by writing a letter assuring peers that EU citizens would be treated with the utmost respect.

Utmost respect = an amendment to guarantee unilateral support.

Today is a good day. It should have been done in the first place.

GhostofFrankGrimes

If you live in an area that is 98% white British then yes I'd say it probably would pass you by.

So if you live in a white area you become magically unable to read a newspaper or visit one online? That's an embarrassingly weak argument.

And 1 in 10 British citizens are immigrants in non British countries.
6 million.

Migration is what happens in a a 21st century world.

Unless your country is such a morally and economically bankrupt basket case that no one would want to come.

www.standuptoracism.org.uk

I think elena has buggered off with the winning bingo card. We've worked our way round to 'we don't like you pointing out we voted with a lot of racists so we're going to tar you all with the same brush'. Again. When's this shift over?

I think reading of 'newspapers' is largely what got us into this mess

woman12345

Unless your country is such a morally and economically bankrupt basket case that no one would want to come.

Since Britain has been experiencing record levels of immigration, it look like hundreds of thousands do want to come, so we can't be all that morally or economically bankrupt.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/dec/01/immigration-to-uk-hit-record-levels-in-run-up-to-brexit-vote-latest-figures-show

500 years ago china destroyed its world class navy because it feared globalisation

That went well

Burning our boats seems a good analogy of what is happening here ATM

So if you live in a white area you become magically unable to read a newspaper or visit one online? That's an embarrassingly weak argument.

Given that most cities with high immigration voted remain they obviously didn't see an issue with immigration and/or the EU.

Absolutely wonderful that people in say a northern industrial town with low immigration can read immigration figures but its not affecting you any more than the "metropolitan elites" are ! Which takes us back to the influence of the press and I'm thinking leave voters weren't generally getting news on immigration from the Guardian but from perhaps other media outlets?

And, Hashi the peculiar way in which memorials to war dead have been fetishised. This has become more and more extreme over the last 10 years.

Other European countries, particularly Germany, have had a much more nuanced and adult way of looking at their countries' experience of war. England does nothing to acknowledge the lives lost on both sides in the 'Troubles'.

It seems impossible to have a non partisan commemoration of the evil that is war. Those who have not thought through how jingoism, and patriotism is used to manipulate, have become the patsies in this too. And so many, sadly seem to be under the impression that the EU is some sort of soviet or Nazi occupation.

Comfort don't forget they are talking about poor and uneducated areas with low migration.

What these vocal and illiberal lefties think is that poor people and old people should not be allowed an opinion on the future of their country. That also think it is ok to tar and feather people as racists for placing a vote (even with no racist intentions) and to accuse intelligent or wealthy people who voted brexit of washed up sentimentality for the Empire.

Very odd.

getting news on immigration from the Guardian but from perhaps other media outlets?

Did you hear that comfort. We are only allowed to read the guardian. I take it the liberal lefties don't like free press either.

So the queen going to ireland to lay a wreath for both sides does not count then.

Or are we talking germany...

I am pretty sure we have done that too

Do you expect people to fight for your security and safety and nobody give a shit once they are dead.

These "uneducated northern towns" have lost many more family members and friends in conflict. Do you not expect them to not vote because you think they are too stupid? Do you expect them to just "forget" their war dead?

I live in one of those cities with a large immigrant population (both Asian and EU). My area voted over 70% Remain

On the subject of immigration, Scotland is needing more immigrants. We have an aging population and in the last 100 years, the population has only grown 10% . In fact we must be unique in that following the discovery of oil, our population decreased and has only recently got back to the level it was in 1971

It's a fact that people who voted leave tended to be older and less educated.

Acknowledging this is, quite obviously, not the same as saying that the poor and uneducated shouldn't have a vote. And indeed nobody has said that.

I would certainly argue that none of us should have had a vote as ill-conceived and carelessly executed as this one, but that applies to everyone regardless of age or education.

woman12345

Other European countries, particularly Germany, have had a much more nuanced and adult way of looking at their countries' experience of war.

Perhaps that's because Germany was the country carrying out the Holocaust, the genocide of an entire race, and the UK was the country that put a stop to it? Sorry, I forgot I wasn't meant to mention facts that contradicted the "Europe good, UK bad" narrative on here.

The inexorable investable Liam Fox the gift that keeps on giving no longer has this tweet on his timeline......

@LiamFoxMP: "The United Kingdom, is one of the few countries in the European Union that does not need to bury its 20th century history" #scc16

I wonder why? maybe because he was given rather a few history lessons

prettybird

I wonder why?

Because we didn't fall under the control of a totalitarian regime of either the far left or the far right. Pretty simple once you think about it.

The more I see of Liam Fox the more I realise that we got the wrong one of the pair and actually need Adam Werrity .

Slippery You have an unblemished record of not replying to a single issue I rise, ever.There is always another straw man, and you are on a roll now.

Comfort In my experience of knowing German citizens being a part of a nation that committed genocide has certainly focused their minds on a nuanced view of war. Perhaps being part of a nation that invented Concentration Camps, that exploited countries and sacked a civilisations' ancient monuments we too should have a nuanced view.....

I genuinely don't understand comfortandjoyce's comment

We definitely need an irony emoticon that is more in your face than or

The reason the tweet has disappeared is because it was so demonstrably stupid ignorant (in the true sense of the word) my Dad was right about him when he was one of his medical students. It has sweet FA to do with whether we are living in a totalitarian regime.

I genuinely don't understand comfortandjoyce's comment

Almost every other EU country fell prey to either Nazism or communism, whether internally or by conquest. Under those systems, they deprived their own citizens of their freedom, waged wars of aggression within Europe, and committed crimes against humanity that included the Holocaust. In the meantime, Britain maintained a liberal democracy for its own citizens, and fought to free Europe from both Nazi and Soviet tyranny. We even got rid of that Empire of ours (eventually). So our 20th century history is only about a million times better than that of most of our EU neighbours.

Sorry to go all Ladybird Books on you, but them's the facts.

Which is why they wanted to join with their neighbours in order to avoid those political forces ever asserting themselves again. We don't even acknowledge they ever did......