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Brexit
Original poster

Stop the silence

389 replies

Niamer · 26/02/2017 16:27

We have heard much talk about "the will of the people" recently. If you are not one of the people supporting the Tory hard Brexit or "Brexit at any cost", you may be interested in "Stop the silence", which gives a voice to the rest of us - those who voted Leave thinking of a Norway-style model, those who thought they were saving the NHS, those who voted Remain. Please like on FB and re-tweet.
www.stopthesilence.co.uk

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Mistigri · 27/02/2017 14:31

Norway isn't in the EU, and is not seeking EU membership. It represents, with Iceland, Turkey and Canada, one of four different ways of being outside the EU. (There is a fifth way of course, which is no deal at all).

Why do you think that a leave vote mandated only one of those particular arrangements? I get that you have your own preferences, but I am genuinely curious about why you believe your views represent those of Britons generally.

SapphireStrange · 27/02/2017 14:37

Anon, Norway/Iceland/Switzerland-style deals were all cited as possible options by high-profile Leavers during the campaign. Someone casting a vote to leave could be forgiven for imagining that one of those might have been what they were voting for.

Anon1234567890 · 27/02/2017 14:47

Norway isn't in the EU In name only, we voted leave not pretend leave.

Why do you think that a leave vote mandated only one of those particular arrangements?

I don't, we voted to leave and that is what should happen. If future elected governments want further/different integration with the EU then they can put that to the UK in a referendum and see what the people say after we have left.

SapphireStrange, It was made clear by all sides in the debate that leaving the EU meant leaving the single market. Its only after the result, remainers are pretending no one knew what they were voting for.

HardcoreLadyType · 27/02/2017 14:54

It was made clear by all sides in the debate that leaving the EU meant leaving the single market.

Really? By whom?

I seem to recall a lot of talk about how leaving the EU did not mean leaving the single market.

But then, there was no manifesto to check on, so anyone could say anything. And did.

Mistigri · 27/02/2017 15:02

It was made clear by all sides in the debate that leaving the EU meant leaving the single market. Its only after the result, remainers are pretending no one knew what they were voting for.

This is a whopping lie. There were pages and pages of debate on here about how remainers were scaremongering because we were going to be like Norway/Switzerland/Iceland (take your pick). You leavers have very short memories.

I repeat. Norway isn't in the EU. It's not in the EU customs union. It's not even a candidate for EU membership.

SapphireStrange · 27/02/2017 15:04

It was made clear by all sides in the debate that leaving the EU meant leaving the single market. Its only after the result, remainers are pretending no one knew what they were voting for.

Two posters above me have advanced a counter-argument to this, which I can only echo.

Dapplegrey1 · 27/02/2017 15:36

I do think many are afraid to speak up for the amount of hate thrown at anyone who sticks their head above the parapet. We have social media to thank for that.
Op - and you don't think leavers have had hate thrown at them?

Original poster
Niamer · 27/02/2017 15:40

Gina fucking Miller again

Not afaik. A few thousand angry remain voters chipping in a fiver this time.

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Original poster
Niamer · 27/02/2017 15:45

Op - and you don't think leavers have had hate thrown at them?

Yes, absolutely. And they are as much victims of the Brexit shambles as anyone else.

Any anger needs to be directed at the system and the politicians who have landed us in this mess.

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TheFullMrexit · 27/02/2017 16:11
Confused
TheFullMrexit · 27/02/2017 16:14

Brexit isn't a shambles and any broken eggs are to be fully expected in divorce. The eu is showing its true colours at the moment. As some one said, they are supposed to be the bastion of liberal values and yet have refused to guarantee citizens rights and acted like spoilt petulant children thus far.

TheFullMrexit · 27/02/2017 16:15

I don't feel any anger to politicians who did the democratic thing which was to be give us a vote on the eu.

olip · 27/02/2017 16:35

We are live with our Facebook page www.facebook.com/Stop-The-Silence-UK-1922569324640655/ and on twitter at @stopthesilence_uk

Kaija · 27/02/2017 16:37

"and yet have refused to guarantee citizens rights"

I don't think they can - it is down to individual countries to arrange their own non-EU immigration, this is not dictated by the EU.

RufusTheSpartacusReindeer · 27/02/2017 17:48

Thats my understanding as well kaiji

birdybirdywoofwoof · 27/02/2017 18:04

The EU have refused to guarantee citizens rights.

It is our Govt. who has refused to guarantee citizens' rights - but I suppose that doesn't fit into (some leavers) bizarre narrative that the EU controls everything to acknowledge that.

It was made clear by all sides in the debate that leaving the EU meant leaving the single market. Its only after the result, remainers are pretending no one knew what they were voting for.

I do remember several leavers on Mumsnet saying that they were voting for a Norwegian Model or to be like the Swiss, or they were against closer union but not for leaving the single market.
( I thought they were quite mad - or at least completely lacking in political foresight.)

Mistigri · 27/02/2017 18:44

Like the UK, EU countries set their own immigration rules for non-EU citizens. I'm still not clear by what mechanism people think "the EU" can protect those of us who are UK citizens living in Europe - it can bring pressure to bear on national governments, but probably not much more than that (unless you believe in the associate citizenship idea, which personally I dont expect to happen).

A4Document · 27/02/2017 21:08

For some reason the little englanders don't seem to like assertive non-white women.

Oh, the old "leavers are sexist and racist" argument again?

Mistigri · 27/02/2017 21:12

Oh, the old "leavers are sexist and racist" argument again?

A lot of them are, though. Gina Miller has come in for much more abuse than her co-claimants in the A50 case, one of whom I know.

Much easier to whip up a mob against a clever, successful, non-white woman than against a white ex-military pensioner.

Original poster
Niamer · 27/02/2017 22:43

Dapplegrey . There is strong pro EU sentiment amongst a minority yes, but I think apathy rules. Most people don't seem too bothered either way, certainly not enough to do anything about it anyway.

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biggsy77 · 27/02/2017 22:46

Mistigirl
Two points

  1. You're not a British citizen so you don't have a right to enfranchisement within the borders of the UK. Like I don't have a right to enfranchisement in other nations. That's just how it goes I'm afraid. Suck it up buttercup.

  2. "Little Englanders". Maybe, just maybe with a little bit of self reflection. You might realise that insulting the largest single demographic of a nation state, might not be the best method to endear yourself to the local population. It might even go somewhere to explain why the democratic vote didn't go the way you hoped it would.

biggsy77 · 27/02/2017 22:51

Olip
You have earned the attention of your superiors. Don't expect to have an easy time in advocating the overturning of the democratic process (should that be your intention).

biggsy77 · 27/02/2017 22:53

Irony, a real life example
Stop The Silence - They haven't shut up since the day after the referendum.
#FacePalm

IvorHughJarrs · 27/02/2017 22:54

For some reason the little Englanders don't seem to like assertive non-white women.

I include assertive non-white women among my friends but dislike Gina Miller. Her belief that having a large amount of money entitles her to get her way over others is what makes me despise her, her "assertiveness" and ethnic origin have nothing to do with that.

Original poster
Niamer · 27/02/2017 23:02

Stop The Silence - They haven't shut up since the day after the referendum

Lol. I agree Biggsy. I have been bleating non-stop. Not sure we have been heard by the people who matter though.

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