Stop the silence

[Niamer]

We have heard much talk about "the will of the people" recently. If you are not one of the people supporting the Tory hard Brexit or "Brexit at any cost", you may be interested in "Stop the silence", which gives a voice to the rest of us - those who voted Leave thinking of a Norway-style model, those who thought they were saving the NHS, those who voted Remain. Please like on FB and re-tweet.
www.stopthesilence.co.uk

Thanks for the helpful definition Yererse but I am equipped with a google button. I just don't see the equivalence between being a Lefty Europhile and being a Lefty Regressive - if anything I think the 2 positions tend to be contradictory (eg I assume George Galloway would be in your Lefty Regressive box but he is no Europhile)

You are indeed a rare breed if you are a Brexit supporting Scottish Tory as I assumed they all followed Ruth's Lead. Where are you on Independence?

accusing posters of 'banging on' is just another attempt at shutting down discussion

Only it is not just discussion it is active campaigning to make Brexit fail, just so you can point and shout Ha Ha, "I told you Brexit would be a disaster". Never mind its our country your destroying in the process.

So in PC language, please stop banging on trying to make Brexit fail. As the op implies, remainers are silent.

The only people who can make Brexit "fail" are the Tories. Discussing potential negative effects of Brexit at the water cooler is not "talking down the economy".

It would be nice however if leave voters could "talk up the economy" post Brexit some of use have been asking for positives for 8 months!

If Brexit does fail well yes, you were told and were given plenty of reasons why too.

I would not be a conservative supporter if there was a better, slightly less right wing option. I vote reluctantly at the moment.
For a straight woman I have a bit of a crush on Ruth Davidson, but couldn't follow her on brexit. Scottish independence, however is financial suicide, let alone a disaster under the extremely illiberal snp.
Jeremy Corbyn sums up the term regressive left for me as does Nicola sturgeon.
It is relevent because everywhere you look there are threads of hysteria about Brexit, the rise of the right and fascism all neatly packaged up together.
I refute that sort of behaviour and was just letting people know that it is just as easy to parcel socialism and communism up with fascism.
Another poster then said about illiberalism and I said that left wing politics often can lead to illiberalism.
Mr exit was offering up an example of left wing illiberalism, which panders to the few above the needs of the many (even where the few are rooted in extemism etc.) and denounces any who question it as racists/fascists/xenophobes.

At the moment I will vote conservative in order to protect the union and because, while I do not necessarily like her TM wold be a tough woman to negotiate with. I do not think anyone can walk all over her and we need that.

You do realise Brexit puts the union at risk? Scotland and NI voted to remain.

No Nicola sturgeon and the nationalists put the union at risk.

The last referendum was horrifically divisive and damaging to scotland. Religious and national tensions turned beautiful scotland into a rabid hate filled beast. Scotland voted to remain in the uk.

Nicola sturgeon will prey on any small difference that she can drum up to vilify our neighbours and to get her own way. Brexit is simply one example.

NEARLY 40% voted leave even within scotland.

Recent polls show that most people do not even want another one after indy vote.

She will stop at nothing to prove that english people are all xenophobes in the hope of terrifying people out of the union to gain ultimate control. She is a very very worrying and illiberal lefty.

She is damaging scotland even within the union, God knows what she would do outside of it.

No Nicola sturgeon and the nationalists put the union at risk.

er, the SNP are a nationalist party. They want independence. Brexit risks the union.

The last referendum was horrifically divisive and damaging to scotland. Religious and national tensions turned beautiful scotland into a rabid hate filled beast. Scotland voted to remain in the uk.

Sounds exactly like Brexit. Divisive language, race hate crimes up etc

Nicola sturgeon will prey on any small difference that she can drum up to vilify our neighbours and to get her own way. Brexit is simply one example.

Sure you aren't talking about elements of the leave campaign? What unifying things are the Tories saying about europe at the moment?

Yes I get what you are saying but

We had a vote on independence... people voted to stay in the uk

We had a vote on the EU...... people voted to leave the EU

It really is that simple folks. Dragging out arguments will not help things to heal. Trust me this sort of thing has been going on in scotland since 2014 and it does not help anyone. The votes were cast and we need to get on with it.

Democracy didn't end in June. People are entitled to disagree with Brexit - including people in Scotland! The union will be changed forever thanks to Brexit can't wait to see how the Tories handle NI.

I hope they are treated well.

I think they will be aiming for a certain amount of access to the single market, but not membership.

There is literally no point in leaving and remaining in things like the customs union or you are more or less still in the EU as the conditions placed on it will be unnaceptible

What nicola wanted was simply not a deliverable option, so it was easy tactics for her to paint england out as the bad guy ignoring scotland to drum up more support.

It is difficult to negotiate with Europe if we tie her hands.

active campaigning to make Brexit fail, just so you can point and shout Ha Ha, "I told you Brexit would be a disaster". Never mind its our country your destroying in the process.

How, how, how, how exactly can people "make Brexit fail"? Furthermore, even if it were possible to somehow will Brexit to fail, nobody has yet explained to me why the joy of shouting "HahaItoldyouso" would override the need to, um, survive and make a living in the now smouldering ruins of the Sunlit Uplands.

I mean, we are regularly told that the British people didn't vote to make themselves poorer, as a form of evidence that, therefore, they must have considered with maximum application of emotionless logic that Brexit would be a glowing success. And we are also regularly told that the EU will similarly not wish to make itself poorer, and will be considering with maximum application of emotionless logic that they need us more than we need them, because BMWs and prosecco.

Yet at the same time, we have a psychically powerful cabal of [who?] being focussed on willing the failure of Brexit Britain, and despite aforementioned mental power, they are also possessed of an irrational zeal which overrides their own survival and self-interest.

^Brexit: House of Lords defies Theresa May over EU nationals' right to stay in UK
The Prime Minister will be forced to overturn the humiliating defeat in the Commons next week - when Tory MPs will be under pressure to stage their own revolt^

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-eu-nationals-right-to-live-uk-house-of-lords-theresa-may-mps-a7606641.html

Yes I saw that.

It is discraceful that a set of unelected people get to preside over our democratic choice as a nation.

Bunch of spoiled children.

Teresa may was always going to let eu nationals who are already here stay, she just wanted british nationals abroad to be extended the same courtesy. She has asked Europe again and again to make an agreement and it has been refused by the Europeans. Probably just waiting for her own country to strip her of the ability to make a good deal first.

All this does is strip her of a perfectly good tool to ensure everyone is secure everywhere.

All they have achieved here is to weaken Teresa ability to ensure the rights of Britons abroad.

Disgusting behaviour. If you rejoice in that you are sicker than I thought.

Dragging out arguments will not help things to heal.
You know what would make things heal? Hearing some sensible discussion about Brexit. Hearing a decent-sounding plan instead of a load of empty rhetoric. Having a PM who was actively trying to work towards a Brexit that would satisfy the majority of the country, rather than pursuing UKIP's agenda. Having a PM who spoke common-sense instead of trying to hoodwink the electorate with soundbites. Having a decent opposition. Not being shut down all the time ('remoaners', 'banging on', 'whinging'). Not calling judges 'enemies of the people' or 'traitors'. etc. etc. All we've seen is division and more division, aided and abetted by our own government and the media.

What nicola wanted was simply not a deliverable option, so it was easy tactics for her to paint england out as the bad guy ignoring scotland to drum up more support.

But this can also be said of the right wing Tories - what they are providing for the UK is only delivering for themselves and their cronies - so paint the EU as the bad guy to drum up support. Sadly in places like Wales and Cornwall they fell for it, and now Westminster is saying, "sorry, we won't guarantee to replace EU money. Tough." On reflection scrub the word sorry and replace it with yah boo sucks.

...Not having to be spectators while our PM sucks up to people like Trump and Erdogan. Not having to watch, horrified, while people (yes, living, breathing people) are used as bargaining chips.

It might surprise some of you to know that many remain voters would like nothing more than to 'get behind' Brexit, but this will not happen unless concerns are acknowledged and properly addressed.

The more she is stripped of the worse the deal. Can nobody see this?

Anon I agree with you 100%. Then they will blame brexit itself and the tories for the crap deal if that is what happens. Scotland and NI will join in blaming england, because here that is just another word for Tory and brexit, then the union will fall apart. It is a tactic by the snp and a clever one too to ask for things which are undeliverable. Unless you understand the ins and outs of the single market and the customs union you do not realise how undeliverable.

Why can people not just want to make the best of the situation. Wishing and actively tying her hands so we get a bad deal is self sabotage and it is disgraceful.

Hearing some sensible discussion about Brexit agree twofingers
Once it's brexit is passed in a couple of weeks, that's when it's going to get really spicy, what with the bills and all (£65b) and a new Scottish ref, and NI elections. I don't know if discussion will be sensible but quality of discourse till now hasn't exactly been erudite.

and
But this can also be said of the right wing Tories .
Yep, tartan tories and English national front ones, piss in the same pot, if you'll excuse the foreign metaphor.

ah, if Brexit fails it will be everyones fault except leave voters.

She can not make public a detailed plan or it will screw up her chances of negotiating well.

There is an element of tactics in good negotiation.

My best friend is a "living breathing bargaining chip" and she wants citizenship and thought it was completely normal to expect that her rights would be guaranteed only if British people abroad were guaranteed the same.

Thanks for the assumption though.

If you rejoice in that you are sicker than I thought.

Well, spit it out. How sick did you think we were? Why? Because we don't agree?

Why can people not just want to make the best of the situation.

I think that's what most people want. But we have heard little of any sense from the twerps in charge of Brexit. Wonderful opportunities to trade - er yes what exactly? We heard today that Nissan wants its supply lines to be guaranteed - which would imply many more parts manufactured in Britain. Plans for this? Show me a blank sheet of paper and I will show you the plan. This could be done but it won't be done in 18 months.

May is soon going to wish her only problem is the 48%,.
She's going to have to go up against 27 countries, a £65 bill and her own dissolving country.