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Brexit

Westministenders: Tell Boris it should be more Stokenders and Copenders

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 22/02/2017 16:17

FINALLY this is the thread of the Copeland and Stoke By-Elections.
In the next few days we will be subjected to a whole pile of analysis from the media most of which will completely miss the point, and will waffle on about Brexit as if it’s the only issue ever and this is what matters to everyone.

Its bollocks.

This is the ‘Westminster Bubble’ that doesn’t report what is on the ground. It includes the media and the politicians who ran into town for the election, never to set foot there ever again. In one case pulling faces at the local children. In another desperately trying to prove how local he is.
Is it any wonder some think that all politicians are all the same?

You can learn far more about what really matters by reading the Stoke Sentinel and The Whitehaven News than reading The Sun or The Mail, those great champions of Leave. (Fancy that local papers being more relevant to a community than a national ones).

The by-election in Stoke has been a particular display of pond life style campaigning. We’ve had Hillsborough, ‘dodgy addresses’, arrest of a candidate, text messages saying you’ll go to hell for voting ‘wrong’, letters that say that MPs voted differently to the way they did, an activist being hunted by the police for trying to enter someone’s house and then pissing on her property, crying candidates, faked photos on twitter, dodgy sexist tweets from candidates dragged up, photographs with known far right activists, egg throwing and vandalism.

The word that keep coming out? Not ‘Brexit’. But ‘Change’.

What have the main parties in either election really added in terms of positive change?

Tomorrow’s weather will not help matters. The chances are that it will keep turnout down, making those postal votes more important. It will drive out the angry to vote whilst the apathetic and hopelessly disillusioned will stay home. The result will not be decided by the 60%+ of the electorate who voted to leave the EU. It will be decided by a fraction of that.

Someone has to lose. There will be political blood shed. Friday will see the political blame and finger pointing I doubt anyone will get it.
The real story is about how few people will vote and how few people think their vote counts for anything.

Immigrants and ‘benefit scroungers’ are not to blame for this. Nor is it even the ‘cultural elite’. Politicians have a duty to the whole country, to do the best for them all. Not to merely do the ‘will of the people’. Popularism does not help people. It merely starts a runaway train of the tyranny of the majority. You don’t give children sweets because they demand them. You educate children, and nurture them. If they are unaware of real issues, you make sure they learn and you explain why you are making unpopular decisions honestly, rather than feeding them a crock of shit. Because that’s your job as a PM, as MP, as a MEP, as an elected mayor, as a county councillor, as a borough councillor, as a parish councillor. To step up.

We need politicians with the back bone to do the right thing for all, rather than just worrying about their electoral strategy and how to con people to vote for you this time. We need politicians to actually take the responsibility of office rather than see it as a career opportunity.

The issues that matter most to people ultimately are not about the EU. They are not about immigration. It’s too easy to blame on immigration rather than tackle the infrastructure problems of the country and admit where you have gone wrong in the past. It’s easier to drive an hysterical fear of terrorism and cultural values being in danger from an enemy far away rather than look at who is really responsible.

If people don’t think that others are unaware of the problem, and don’t care about them and how they are being thrown under the bus, they are wrong. Plenty of people on both sides of the EU referendum debate get it.

Plenty on both sides don’t and are indulging the fantasy land excuses for domestic political failure.

The question is how do you get that message out, in a way that makes a difference and does change things? How do you break the stereotypes of the stupid and the patronising? How do you get people like the Nathan from Stoke to be heard and to believe in politics. Not believe in Brexit. Believe that politics can help them.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
11
HashiAsLarry · 28/02/2017 21:51

Last summer I nearly ran into Farage. If it weren't for the fact I didn't want to harm DS I'd have happily crashed my buggy into the twat hard. Angry

woman12345 · 28/02/2017 21:56

FlowersBadders echo what BigChoc said, voluntary groups will be lucky to have you.

woman12345 · 28/02/2017 22:29

www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/28/boris-johnson-foreign-secretary-british-chambers-commerce
Can do' folk get to see foreign secretary have narcissistic breakdown
Once Boris had burnt himself out, some of these concerns were voiced. “Why can’t you just be honest and say that some people will be better off as a result of Brexit and some won’t?” asked a Sky reporter. Boris looked confused. Since when had anyone in government ever been honest about Brexit?

BigChocFrenzy · 28/02/2017 22:50

Grin woman < gotta laugh at Bojo, too depressing to take hm seriously as Foreign Sec >

In Germany, the Leipzig regional edition of Bild have "Thank you Brexit" above their headline hoping that the new electric Mini will be built there.
Other alternative sites are Regensburg or Born (Holland)

In the long run, BMW plans to make its entire line of Mini cars fully electric, so losing the electric Mini would likely mean that the Cowley plant on Oxford (4,000 employees) has no longterm future

http://www.bild.de/regional/leipzig/mini-cooper/wird-der-e-mini-bald-in-leipzig-gebaut-50629742.bild.html

Westministenders: Tell Boris it should be more Stokenders and Copenders
Peregrina · 28/02/2017 22:57

In the long run, BMW plans to make its entire line of Mini cars fully electric, so losing the electric Mini would likely mean that the Cowley plant on Oxford (4,000 employees) has no longterm future

Which is what I have been worried about all along, knowing people who work there. I wonder what sort of Nissan like deal May will offer them? Or won't she bother? Nissan/Sunderland voted Leave, therefore good and must be bribed. BMW/Oxford voted Remain, therefore must be punished.

boredofbrexit · 28/02/2017 23:20

May be of interest.

Westministenders: Tell Boris it should be more Stokenders and Copenders
Kaija · 28/02/2017 23:30

Thank you bored. I can't go, but if you do I would be interested to know what is discussed.

whatwouldrondo · 28/02/2017 23:48

Woman I read the tinpot Churchill Bojo speech in complete disbelief. The unicorns, cake and Britannia herself were dancing around the room in some sort of Disney fairyland spectacular. In contrast to Major's speech yesterday which was actually on this planet, but as Grayling said in his article in the New European it is all about attitude and emotion now, forget realism and reason.

woman12345 · 01/03/2017 07:36

www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/01/firms-bidding-for-government-contracts-asked-if-they-back-brexit

^Firms bidding for government contracts asked if they back Brexit
Department for International Trade says tech companies should have the right ‘cultural fit’ if they want to be hired^ Shock

woman12345 · 01/03/2017 07:42

^The Liberal Democrat leader, Tim Farron, said: “The Conservative Brexit government demanding there must be a ‘cultural fit’ is straight out of the pages of Nineteen Eighty-Four.

“The private opinions of government employees have always been their own business. Now they are required to support Brexit, will they have to support the Tories too?”

Farron added: “Professionals will always strive for the best outcomes in their work without being told how they should and shouldn’t think^

woman12345 · 01/03/2017 07:42

Looking a bit more fascisty every day.

woman12345 · 01/03/2017 07:44

In total, these “cultural fit” criteria will be given a 15% weighting in assessing which company to pick, the ads say

15% weighting for a cultural fit, that's me out on my quiche ears Grin.

Mistigri · 01/03/2017 08:09

Firms bidding for government contracts asked if they back Brexit

You'd hope that would be illegal, though I expect my hopes in this respect to be false.

SummerLightning · 01/03/2017 08:26

The most ludicrous thing in my eyes about that contract is that it's to finish at the end of March.

Doesn't really give much time to get much done given it's starting right from scratch?

You'd probably need a pro-Brexit unicorns out of your arse type attitude to want to apply for it.

prettybird · 01/03/2017 08:45

They're obviously really keen to get the best of the best for these contracts Hmm

Wonder you'll they'll blame if they're not able to deliver Hmm

woman12345 · 01/03/2017 09:19

You'd hope that would be illegal ECHR, which she wants to leave.

woman12345 · 01/03/2017 09:21

And, Banks is off.............National Front MPs will be in:
www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/01/nigel-farage-carswell-stopping-ukip-becoming-radical-anti-immigration-party

Peregrina · 01/03/2017 09:44

Now this is funny:

Farage accused Carswell of being “against most of the key principles that Ukip stands for” and that he threatened to undermine the current leader, Paul Nuttall.

I don't think so Nigel, I think Nuttall undermines himself without any assistance.

ElenaGreco123 · 01/03/2017 09:53

Peregrina Nissan basically said they would stay if UK government built them an entire supply chain. Not gonna happen. Current 85% of parts are imported.

Brexit means taxpayers need to support supply chain, says Nissan
www.theguardian.com/business/2017/feb/28/brexit-taxpayers-support-supply-chain-nissan-sunderland-car-auto?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

LurkingHusband · 01/03/2017 10:17

Brexit means taxpayers need to support supply chain, says Nissan

Well you'd think that would make some Brexiteers pause for breath ???

Unfortunately, if you can believe in unicorns, you can also believe in and endless pot of money. And it's clear from some discussions, quite a few people do .....

Peregrina · 01/03/2017 10:27

Brexit means taxpayers need to support supply chain, says Nissan

It would be good for the country if there was this investment - we might then have something to sell to other countries outside the EU. But - this needs a long term plan - I would imagine something like a 10 year strategy to get it up and running, and huge investment in both plant and equipment and education and training. I don't doubt that if the will was there, the money could be found. I just don't think the will is there from the current sorry crowd sitting on the green benches of Westminster.

howabout · 01/03/2017 10:51

Long term investment in infrastructure, plant and education is exactly what the UK needed even before Brexit - I agree Peregrina

I am hopeful that Brexit will provide a much needed catalyst and alter the balance in favour of investment. I do share your concerns that there will be too little too late but I think the sooner everyone gets on board with pushing for it the better. I was shouting at Baroness Wheatcroft yesterday as she told me we hadn't really had very much austerity and we needed much more - would like to know exactly how much pain she has shared and did not persuade me to her Remain and rerun the referendum view.

Peregrina · 01/03/2017 11:00

I am hopeful that Brexit will provide a much needed catalyst and alter the balance in favour of investment.

There is little reason for not having done this 20 years ago, so I personally am not especially hopeful. The people in Government seem to be complete amateurs, who will be long gone before any investment made today, of which there are few signs, will bear fruition.

LurkingHusband · 01/03/2017 11:02

Generally, the UK doesn't do investment.

Investment is where you put money into something we use.

The UK does the politics of me.

"Why should I pay for something I use less than you (or not at all) ????"

(see: NHS, roads, schools, public transport, local facilities ....)

Remember: there's no such thing as society (© 198? The Conservative and Unionist Party of Great Britian and Northern Ireland)

unicornsIlovethem · 01/03/2017 11:09

The whole PFI fiasco was designed to be investment without actually having to call it investment or have it on the governments balance sheets.

The only government investment I can remember is new roads and that dropped off after the Newbury bypass mess...

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