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Brexit

To wonder if there are any Leave voters who actually are having second thoughts about Brexit

513 replies

Bearbehind · 17/02/2017 19:42

Following Tony Blairs call for Remainers to convince Leavers to change their mind I'm wondering if there are actually any Leavers who are worried and might prefer us not to be going in the direction we are heading.

From what I've seen Leavers are more determined than ever and really don't seem in the slightest bit concerned about any negative repercussions so they're not going to be swayed.

Who is Blair aiming his comments at?

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Bearbehind · 18/02/2017 21:08

It would be possible cream if any of the Leavers on here could answer my question about the balance of leaving.

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creampinkrose · 18/02/2017 21:10

Because the thread title didn't say 'discuss brexit' but asked a specific question. Having answered that question, there have been interesting discussions but also insults, on both sides, which has led to a certain amount of argy bargy, which will always happen when people feel strongly about something I suppose. But let's try and steer away from it.

creampinkrose · 18/02/2017 21:10

Could you repeat the question?

Bearbehind · 18/02/2017 21:13

cream, 400 posts in the thread has moved on from the OP.

My question was in reponse to a post saying leavers had weighed up that the positives outweighed the negatives.

I asked for some positives that outweigh

  • inflation due to the falling pound
  • trade tariffs with eu countries
  • non trade barriers with eu countries
  • lack of investment due to uncertainty
  • consequences of hard border in Ireland
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Caprianna · 18/02/2017 21:15

I think its fair enough to expect people to have a basic understanding of what they have voted for when the conseqences of voting is potentially so catastrophic to the country and future generations. Its evident from this thread and many others that leavers do not have a basic understanding neither of the EU nor immigration in the UK and that is quite worrying considering they have made this huge decision. People have the right to question this and be very worried.

creampinkrose · 18/02/2017 21:15

Yes, I know that bear, thanks, I was replying to someone else.

Positives for me are control over our borders, a democratically elected (and therefore accountable) government and not being forced to enter the Euro, which I'm almost positive we would had we elicited to stay.

I recognise for you these do not compensate but for me, they do.

RoccoW14 · 18/02/2017 21:18

Who or what could force us to use the Euro? Is that not a choice of the sovereign UK parliament?

PenelopeNitStop · 18/02/2017 21:18

Bearbehind - I need to make a apology..... i have reread the thread. It was Rocco who was foul to people and really personal, not you. So I got the wrong person on the end of my shit stick - you weren't actually personal to individuals at all.

Truly apologies, I fucked up Flowers

Bearbehind · 18/02/2017 21:19

cream could you elaborate on

a democratically elected (and therefore accountable) government

How have our previous governments been elected if not democratically?

What will suddenly make them accountable now?

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Bearbehind · 18/02/2017 21:20

I really appreciate the apology penelope

I know I can be forthright about my views on here but I do try very hard not to be personal

We can agree to disagree Grin

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Kaija · 18/02/2017 21:20

I know questions are not popular on these threads, but I would really like to know the answer to both bear's and rocco's in response to cream's post.

creampinkrose · 18/02/2017 21:21

Because fundamentally, aims of an ever closer Union was always the objective. Had the UK voted to stay in the EU, I'm positive we would have ended up with the Euro.

RoccoW14 · 18/02/2017 21:21

Penelope - perhaps I've been guilty of making some sweeping generalisations, but where exactly have I been personal?!

creampinkrose · 18/02/2017 21:22

Bear, to be honest we will just end up going around in circles :) I don't mean that rudely, but you won't change your mind, neither will I.

TheElementsSong · 18/02/2017 21:23

IIRC we had an exemption on the Euro Confused

creampinkrose · 18/02/2017 21:24

Had.

PenelopeNitStop · 18/02/2017 21:25

Rocco - read back. I'm not handing you your arse on a plate, I have just done that to Bear and it turns out it wasn't her. But you were out of line and awful with people.

scaryteacher · 18/02/2017 21:25

bear What about the NTBs that are already in place within the EU? Amazon for example is not allowed to operate in Belgium as the Belgian government sees it as a threat to physical shops, especially booksellers. Legislation was passed recently to stop supermarkets selling new released books cheaply, as small bookshops couldn't compete.

As regards tariffs, someone within the Commission and EP has to make a decision to apply tariffs to UK goods and services. I know Flanders is very keen to have tariff free trade with us as are others. What would the imposition of tariffs achieve from the EU side apart from tit for tat on imports to the UK?

I think the UK is still cheaper than parts of the EU for many things, not least heat and light, and I still get more in my trolly for the same spend in Sainsbury than I do in Carrefour, Delhaize or Colryut. I don't buy clothes in Belgium, as it's cheaper in the UK, and there are things I will go back to buy rather than get them here, or pay the postage, as it's still cheaper to do so.

Vets bills seem to be cheaper here, but then vets tend to work as individuals out of their houses with part of the house converted to a surgery, as opposed to a group practice with the concomitant expenses and business rates. I haven't come across a veterinary nurse here either - the vets seem to do the whole thing themselves.

NI - don't know the answer to that one, bur presumably N Sturgeon will have an answer as she will be faced with the same problem if she wins her next indyref and eventually manages to convince the EU to allow Scotland to accede.

Thought this biglobalization.org/.../brexit_and_the_border_discussion_paper_hayward_komarova... was interesting re RoI/NI border.

Caprianna · 18/02/2017 21:26

The euro is doomed. I also think EU is doomed or must reform, but Brexit is not the right time or answer at this time.

Bearbehind · 18/02/2017 21:27

cream please could you answer the question about the democratically elected government.

Why do you think our government wasn't democratically elected or accountable previously?

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PenelopeNitStop · 18/02/2017 21:27

Bear - thanks for accepting the apology. Absolutely mortified Blush And I promise you, I really am a remainer Grin So sorry

creampinkrose · 18/02/2017 21:27

Calri, if you genuinely feel the EU is doomed, why wouldn't you want out? Very genuine question; I am interested.

MarciaBlaine · 18/02/2017 21:28

I worked in Customs Clearance in Dover and was made redundant In 1992 when the single market started. A whole industry decimated overnight. We all moved on from that a long way back.

Bearbehind · 18/02/2017 21:30

What about the NTBs that are already in place within the EU?

The Belgian Amazon example is the complete opposite of the predicament we face though.

That is a country protecting its own interests.

NTB will be enforced on us and will hinder our trade.

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creampinkrose · 18/02/2017 21:30

Sorry, Capri

Bear, we elect our government. They are accountable to us.

We do not elect officials in the EU, ergo, they are not accountable to us. This is rehashing old ground, it really is.