To wonder if there are any Leave voters who actually are having second thoughts about Brexit

[Bearbehind]

Following Tony Blairs call for Remainers to convince Leavers to change their mind I'm wondering if there are actually any Leavers who are worried and might prefer us not to be going in the direction we are heading.

From what I've seen Leavers are more determined than ever and really don't seem in the slightest bit concerned about any negative repercussions so they're not going to be swayed.

Who is Blair aiming his comments at?

This is what pisses me off about some remainers. I accept that remainers will have good and sufficient reasons to have voted as they did, and whilst I may vehemently disagree with them, I also accept that many will have done their research and decided that on balance, remaining in was better. Why is it not possible for you to extend the same courtesy to those who voted leave? Why am I told I am 'obtuse' because I happen to disagree with you?

Mainly because your fellow Leavers never actually answer any questions about why they decided on balance leaving was the best choice.

There is never any balance. The consequnces are never, ever factored in even if a reason is articulated.

On this thread alone I've asked 3 or 4 Leavers questions about specific points and not one has answered.

Alargegarden What pisses me off is someone telling me that I don't understand it. What don't I understand - do tell?

Maastricht Treaty ' 'to maintain in full the acquis communautaire and build on it', hence the ratchet when powers acquired under the acquis are not repatriated.

It's the bus drivers job and the companies job.

Well that's a heroic cop-out.

It's the bus drivers job and the companies job.

Much as this analogy over simplifies the situation, the bus company is the government not the EU.

Why on earth do you think the government will do something about this now when they didn't bother before?

EU migration will be replaced with migration from whichever countries we bow and scrape to in order to secure trade deals.

How will that improve things?

Surely scary teacher, if your rationale is sound, it wouldn't be hard for you to elaborate. Why not talk me through your train of thought on this specific point? Enlighten me..

The fact is that you're either unable or unwilling to provide one example to back up your assertion that QMV has been detrimental to the UK. My money is on the former, but please go ahead and surprise, if you're able to..

I voted out and would do it again! Still strongly believe it's the best decision for this country.

To those in favour of freedom of movement...Please tell me if you'd be in favour of freedom of movement for the whole world? If not, why not?

I see no remainers fancy answering my question!

formerbabe that's because it's a stupid question.

FOM within the EU is part of the agreement, it's one of the 4 pillars.

It is not completely uncontrolled anyway plus we had the option of a brake but DC didn't take that.

No one is suggesting FOM for the whole world should exist so why are you?

bear I've answered on other threads why I decided to vote leave as have others - but again and again, it is ignored. Why should I bother rehashing it for the nth time, when those on the remain threads don't want to engage in any meaningful way (apart from a couple of notable exceptions), but just dismiss us all as thick, racist, and xenophobic, to which we can now add obtuse, and that I have a half baked understanding of the acquis.

No, not my scrutiny, ANY scrutiny. Just like the bullshit about buses being full

Unluckily for you, we have a democracy, with one person, one vote, and whether you believe (or believe that everyone else who matters believes) is not the basis for how decisions are taken.

You don't want to answer it because you know a borderless world would be chaos and you'd be forced to admit the UK doesn't have endless resources for everyone who'd come here.

Former Babe, don't be so impatient!

Freedom of movement works fine within the EU because member countries need to meet a number of criteria to demonstrate that they are modern European democracies and all EU countries must vote unanimously for any new country to join. Additionally, there are a number of situations in which we can either deny entry or deport citizens of other EU countries. The fact that we either don't or don't do it well is our own government's fault.

Should we sign up to freedom of movement with other countries which aren't in Europe? Potentially yes, if each of those countries can individually meet all of the necessary criteria and are unanimously accepted by all current member countries. A couple of examples could be Australia and Canada.

But if it's such a stupid question, could you answer this..

If you believe current net migration levels are sustainable, is there a point at which you'd believe it would become unsustainable?

Seriously scary, I've been around from the beginning and, despite Leavers continued protestations that theyve already answered questions about why they voted as they did, I have literally not seen a single one that even attempted to balance their thoughts with the known consequences.

Would you like to tell us how your reasons outweigh the points I raised above about inflation, tariffs, NTB's, NI etc?

OK, I've only read as far as page 3, but notice (surprise, surprise!) there are all these Leave voters who, of course, would vote Leave again in a heartbeat. What I've also noticed is that not one of them has articulated WHY, or put forward any evidence to demonstrate how well it's going so far.

I don't think you're going to get many people saying they regret their vote, one way or another, but I really, really don't buy the "I know a lot of people who voted Remain, but wish they voted Leave. What most Remain voters have been waiting for is some indication that it won't be a disaster, or for a real vision to emerge, ie something they felt they could unite behind. I could see people changing their minds in those circumstances, but given we've only seen empty rhetoric and weak, divisive leadership, I ccaannot believe that anyone who voted remain would have had any reason to reconsider their position.

Former Babe - do you have any issue with migration into the UK from outside the EU? You do realise that is completely within our control now and that this group makes up more than half of our current migration numbers. Leaving the EU won't change this.

frjerbabe, stop making ridiculous extrapolations.

releasethebats any update on my question above about how the positives of leaving outweigh the negatives?

The bus company obviously need to invest in more and better buses to service the customers they already have, not try to squeeze everyone on the one crappy bus that isn't sufficient for the people already there.

Bus is UK infrastructure and bus company is UK Govt isn't it?

Bear - perhaps it's because some remainers make the mistake of believing that they are owed an explanation from leavers that they deem acceptable, rather than listen to the actual reasons given.

Leavers have to account to their conscience, in just the same way that we do, that is all.

If people's reasons had to stand up to scrutiny, we would all have had to submit an essay in the referendum, rather than just answering yes or no.

Perhaps it would be better to condemn putting such a complex issue to referendum, instead of a parliamentary vote.

twofingers, I'll save you 12 pages and tell you there's no evidence about how great it's going to b in those either.

Mainly because your fellow Leavers never actually answer any questions about why they decided on balance leaving was the best choice

This is untrue. There are threads and threads in the Referendum topic you can search where leavers have given their reasons for leaving. Each time they do bear you say that their reasons are invalid, debunked, untrue, etc etc., which is your opinion. This doesn't mean posters haven't given their reasons on numerous occasions.

Should we sign up to freedom of movement with other countries which aren't in Europe? Potentially yes, if each of those countries can individually meet all of the necessary criteria and are unanimously accepted by all current member countries. A couple of examples could be Australia and Canada

Exactly my point. Freedom of movement only works between economically comparable countries. The movements of people are more even and balance each other out. I believe therefore that fom between say the UK and France for example works quite well. When the EE countries joined however, the flows of people is virtually completely one sided as people seek better opportunities. One could argue these countries weren't ready to join.

penelope you're right, this should never have been the subject of a referendum but we are where we are.

Leavers do owe the rest of us an explanation in so far as they've chosen a path for us, the least they can do is tell us why and how they think the known problems will be overcome and it'll all be worth it.

The reality is, for the very vast majority, they've not thought that far ahead.

No Bear, they don't owe you an explanation. If Parliament didn't ask for one, it is the height of arrogance to expect leavers to answer to a random on Mumsnet.

release no one has ever answered the on balance part of my point.

Are you going to attempt to?