To wonder if there are any Leave voters who actually are having second thoughts about Brexit

[Bearbehind]

Following Tony Blairs call for Remainers to convince Leavers to change their mind I'm wondering if there are actually any Leavers who are worried and might prefer us not to be going in the direction we are heading.

From what I've seen Leavers are more determined than ever and really don't seem in the slightest bit concerned about any negative repercussions so they're not going to be swayed.

Who is Blair aiming his comments at?

The fact is that MPs, both current and former, are all tainted. None have the ability to galvanise support.. that said, Blair is extremely despised and seems to lack any support. I don't think there's any individual who would fit the bill.

I'm just incredibly disappointed in the complete dereliction of duty shown by the House of Commons. It's all been waved through without any pause for thought, checks and balances etc.. just a blank check for May to do as she pleases!

I think they have all prioritized their future careers over and above the future of the country, Rocco.

If anything good can come out of this whole mess, I'm hoping it might be the emergence of a new type of politician and a new opposition party. I live in hope.

I also have feel remain lost out because no matter how earnestly renain try and quote immigration figures, we know from the start ie 2004 one thing Blair could now do was count. So on that score figures hold no weight. I think Blair feels every thing has gone wrong since he left the helm. The heady days of wearing blousen camp David jackets with potus.... I can imagine his friends begging him to try his hand at power again. Stopping everything that was so right, from going so wrong.

RoccoW14 Europe doesn't control us. To put it simply, small issues are voted in by a qualified majority (of which the UK has ~13% of the votes despite only being 1 country of 28) and the big stuff requires unanimity i.e. the UK has a veto.

You are saying then that the acquis communautaire and the ratchet are in our imaginations? That the move to QMV from unanimous decisions in more areas where the UKs vote would be weakened if members who were non net contributors banded together to out vote us is not happening?

tiggytape I don't know, just because you've been asked your opinion on something doesn't mean you actually care about it or think about it often. Maybe I hang around with the wrong kind of people but I know no one personally who was anti EU prior to the referendum.

Yougov also asked people if they wanted turkey in their ideal Christmas dinner and only 52% voted keep turkey : yougov.co.uk/news/2016/12/21/only-half-people-would-have-turkey-their-ideal-chr/

Broken my MP was a leaver and always has been, but then she'd had a lot of involvement on the Fisheries side of thing as that was her bread and butter before becoming an MP; and I mean in terms of being married to a fisherman and running a business, not just sitting in committees.

If you run a bus service there has to be a limit on people you allow on the bus.

But if there aren't enough buses to start with because you've planned the routes badly or not invested in enough buses then there's never going to be enough room on the buses for the people who need them.

Yes, well I would have expected any Leave MPs to vote for article 50, obviously. That's a no brainer.

It's a bit more complicated for the overwhelming majority of MPs who passionately believe that leaving the EU will be disastrous for our country. I have some sympathy for those who have voted in line with the views of their constituencies, rather than their own. It must have been incredibly difficult for them.

I have no patience at all for those who believe that we should remain and represent constituencies which voted remain, and yet voted to trigger article 50 because their party whips told them to do so. Shame on them!

Scary Teacher - how unsurprising, another obtuse post from a leaver.

If such an issue for you, why not tell us about legislation which has been moved from unanimous to QMV that the UK has an issue with and examples of QMV votes that haven't gone our way?

Good point, jelly!

RoccoW14

Having read through most of these comments, I'm yet to see any Leave voter articulate why they chose to vote Leave and for their rationale to stand up to any scrutiny. It's the same wherever you turn

Their rationale doesn't stand up to your scrutiny because your opinion is different. In the same way, your reasons for voting remain will not stand up to the scrutiny of leave voters - otherwise they would have voted remain.

Quite simply and being as polite as possible, aside from the racists and idiots, the rest of the 17.4m were ill informed.. and worse still, they have the mentality of football fanatics when discussing the referendum and are proven wrong i.e. they resort to the old "we won, you lost, get over it.."

Insults mixed in with mis-information. Is anyone on this thread saying "we won, you lost, get over it"? Even if they are, not 17.4 million of them. I don't think the tendency to ascribe negative characteristics to other groups of people is a good one.

It's a sad state of affairs, but hardly surprising given the Rule Britannia attitude of the older generation and the atrocious standard of education throughout the country

More insults.

What on earth is wrong with collaborating on a number of issues with your closest neighbours and harmonising rules in relation to them? Surely it's common sense.. and when the overwhelming majority of decisions made by the EU are either instigated or agreed by the UK, it's clearly working for us

Well, it comes back to difference of opinion again. For some the positives outweigh the negatives, and for some, they don't.

No, not my scrutiny, ANY scrutiny. Just like the bullshit about buses being full.

@scaryteacher

There are few things more irritating than those with a half baked understanding of the workings of the EU spouting obscure nonsense about the aquis and the ratchet - concepts few on here understand. The only reason more people do not call you on this is the lamentable level of understanding of the workings of the EU in the UK. And for that the EU needs to share responsibility.

There is NOTHING in the treaties to which the UK has not agreed. To imply that the UK is regularly outvoted on key issues is just wrong. The fact that you are doing so tells me that you either do not know what you are talking about or that you are deliberately setting out to mislead.

For some the positives outweigh the negatives, and for some, they don't.

My view on that has always been that the positives categorically don't outweigh the negatives mainly on account of the fact no one can articulate the positives.

Could you give us some tangible examples relesethebats?

Examples which outweigh

• increased inflation due to the falling pound
• lack of a investment due to uncertainty
• trade tariffs for our deals wth EU countries
• non tariffs barriers within EU countries
• the implications of a hard border in Ireland.

If you run a bus service there has to be a limit on people you allow on the bus.

See this is the kind of glib soundbite that makes me .

Sometimes we're being told that the Leave vote was all about immigration (the economic distress of the Left Behinds is usually blamed on immigrant labour), then sometimes it wasn't about immigration at all, in fact let's have more immigrants from everywhere (some sort of sweeping attack on the EU as being all white and racist is in order here), it was all about sovereignty of rather the feeling of not having it.

But whichever, we are regularly assured that everybody who voted Leave actually positively welcomes the "right kind" of immigrants with the skills that are needed, who fill required vacancies, who speak English and are willing to integrate, etc. I've certainly had the "oh I didn't mean you" comment enough times.

Then we are now told that the UK is a bus which is too full - why, our schools and doctors and hospitals and transport and houses are all bursting at the seams! No doubt full of the "wrong kind" of immigrant, they don't mean the "right kind"

I would ask: When you (nonspecific) see me and my children - at school, in the GP's waiting room, living in my house, driving the car in traffic, squeezing onto the bus in the morning, speaking in my mother tongue to my kids - do you really think to yourself "Oh maybe she's the right kind of immigrant and probably highly skilled doing a useful job and probably well-integrated and fluent in English, and furthermore if there weren't so many of the wrong kind, I'd be extra delighted to see her"? Or do you just think "Look, another one flooding our services and costing us money for translators and suppressing wages and taking our jobs! The UK bus is full!"?

statistically you must know some who are anti EU

I do now because people have been forced to choose. Prior to this I don't know of anyone that would have cared about the EU enough to describe themselves as anti-EU. Ambivalent perhaps but no one who resented the idea of being in the EU enough to talk about it ever. If I feel strongly enough to be anti-something I generally mention it to a few people.

But what do I know, I didn't realise only 52% were pro turkey for Christmas dinner. WTF? Turkey IS Christmas dinner!

I don't think anything

Concerns about immigration levels are very different to concerns about immigrants.

- the implications of a hard border in Ireland.

This worries me.

But jelly if the bus company had not invested in new buses, extra buses and things were already tight, surely it's the most basic duty of care and for the company to work with on improving services BEFORE actively campaigning to massively increase service users!?? And if people using that service start to suffer they have every right to hold that company to account for failing in basic duty of care to its customers.

But jelly if the bus company had not invested in new buses, extra buses and things were already tight, surely it's the most basic duty of care and for the company to work with on improving services BEFORE actively campaigning to massively increase service users!?? And if people using that service start to suffer they have every right to hold that company to account for failing in basic duty of care to its customers.

I absolutely agree that the bus company are at fault here.

Let's put this immigration issue to bed once and for all. Out of these three groups 1) EU migrants, 2) UK citizens and 3) non-EU migrants, the amount of tax paid on average per person is highest by 1), then 2) and then 3). The UK government already has full control of all non-EU migrants and yet they make up more than half of all immigrants into the UK. If there's an issue with the amount of immigrants, the government could have reduced the number coming in from outside the EU, but failed to do so.

Within the EU, we already have the authority to send home EU migrants who do not gain employment within a reasonable timeframe. Why don't we? Ask the former Home Secretary and current PM!

The fact is that the UK needs migrants and demographically, the EU migrant workforce is complementary to our own.

Why are public services stretched? A chronic lack of underinvestment by successive governments.

To those in favour of freedom of movement...Please tell me if you'd be in favour of freedom of movement for the whole world? If not, why not?

Why obtuse Rocco? The acquis and the ratchet means that we have to adopt the case law and legislation of the EU whether it suits us or not.

Why do I have to tell you about anything? Do your own research.

This is what pisses me off about some remainers. I accept that remainers will have good and sufficient reasons to have voted as they did, and whilst I may vehemently disagree with them, I also accept that many will have done their research and decided that on balance, remaining in was better. Why is it not possible for you to extend the same courtesy to those who voted leave? Why am I told I am 'obtuse' because I happen to disagree with you?

This is why opinion hardens; because of snotty comments.

Oh good so it's the bus companies job to make sure the volume of people getting on the bus is safe. They have a duty if care to theirs customers. They know their bus needs repair, nl they know its dangerous to pack to many people in. So they must not let that happen.

Elements I don't understand your comment actually. In our bus analogy it's not down to customers to regulate themselves as to who gets on bus. It's the bus drivers job and the companies job.