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Brexit

Westministenders: Boris is reminded of the Munich Post.

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 07/02/2017 11:36

The Munich Post was the 1930s German Newspaper that refused to normalise. It refused to bow to the threats and intimidation of the Nazi State. It was to eventually closed but it defended the truth to the bitter end.

With Trump’s systematic attacks on the Press and Judiciary we should take heed. We must stand up for our journalists who seek to serve the public rather than serve their masters and only chase profit.

We must ask why, right wing extremists when they make attacks are too frequently labelled simply as lone wolfs who exist within a vacuum, when it is widely accepted by intelligence services that Muslim extremists are often the products of online radicalisation and any element of mental history is totally irrelevant because of their religion.

The PM hiring advertising agents to try and deal with a problem of increasing racial tensions rather than talking to the newspaper executives who she has close relationships with, is a deliberate missing of the point.

It is an abdication of responsibility and is wilfully ignorant.

It is about time we addressed the hole of hatred in our society that exists properly. From all angles and approaches, from all parts of our society. The blind spot in failing to acknowledge how the media’s role in this only serves to fuel the divisions. It has become normalised. Powerful lobbying groups like the Freedom Association continue to deny that populism has contributed to a rise in hate crime pointing to a dislike for how incidents are recorded. Their influence in Westminster is too apparent.

Some of the comments made in the houses of commons and to the media by Tory MPs have been worryingly close to comments made by Trump and his associates. They have been worryingly close to online trolls. They have been laced with too many ‘alternative facts’ and full of exaggerated language about immigrants. Language, its use and context are important and powerful.

These are elected officials with a social responsibility. Instead they are continue to stir things. We no longer need Farage and worry about UKIP. We have a whole bunch of them in the HoC and a quick trawl though Hansard reveals them in all their glory. To a privileged white man they are Trump apologists. During the debate over Trump’s visit to the UK, one even thought it appropriate to woof at a female MP. In 2017.

We might be very British in the way our alternative facts are being expressed but the same threats are very much present within British politics as they are currently in US politics. We might not have anyone quite as brash and brazen as Trump (with the possible exception of Farage), but this makes it more not less dangerous. People like IDS and Johnson add respectably to the thin veneer of hatred and xenophobia.

A50 is likely to pass the commons, without amendment as things stand. (I think we need to watch the Lords with interest) We are perhaps likely to enter a period where things might quieten down in the UK for a time. We must be vigilant and not accept normalisation and continue to make noise about how we feel about the future of this country or we will be dominated by the agenda of these individuals who have little respect for the interests of anyone who is not part of their boys club.

Theresa May may not be one of them, but like Trump she craves their approval and does share many of their values. She is happy to pander to them, and them to her as she makes their toxicity somehow more acceptable.

What women do next is crucial. Do we want to accept this vision of the future? Now is not the time to fall silence and accept that things are equal now. We know the reality. And it affects all of us, regardless of how we voted on 23rd June.

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Peregrina · 07/02/2017 22:06

Perhaps David Blunkett's disability held him back? Certainly the education he received didn't do him many favours and he succeeded despite that. You could also mention Jack Ashley who was deaf, and managed to hold down his MPs job, but did need assistance with phone calls - his wife used to listen in. But both of them knew they needed assistance and discharged their duties. I am quite sure that Trump can read, but it appears that he doesn't really know what he is supposed to do.

ElenaGreco123 · 07/02/2017 22:12

I also think it is more ignorance than illiteracy.

woman12345 · 07/02/2017 22:15

Deer Hunting with Jesus: Dispatches from America’s Class War
by Joe Bageant
Chapter 8, American Hologram: The Apocalypse will be Televized
pp. 249-251

“[ . . . ] of the 89 million to 94 million American adults—nearly half of the U.S. adult population—who are functionally illiterate. According to the National Institute for Literacy, they “lack a sufficient foundation of basic [literacy] skills to function successfully in our society.” Of these, 17 percent to 20 percent can read just a little. That means that they cannot fill out job applications, understand food labels, or read simple stories to their children. Another 25 percent can read, but not well enough to follow five consecutive paragraphs of text or dense documents such as sales contracts.

whatwouldrondo · 07/02/2017 22:15

I am not going to watch that video but l am dyslexic and I can read, indeed manage to be a postgrad. He may well be dyslexic, lots of CEO are, but it is a Specific Learning Disability not an intellectual disability. It just means that you have particular issues with literacy skills, not that you cannot learn, it affects 10% of the population regardless of their intellectual ability. It also tend to go along with an ability to see things holistically which is why it cab be a strength in a CEO.

I have absolutely no doubt that he has narcissistic personality disorder, he may or may not be intellectually challenged and / or have some Specific Learning Difficulty but it is very unlikely, and certainly does not mean, that he is actually as a graduate of an Ivy League college, unable to read an EO.

Fra more likely that as a narcissist he is so focused on his own position that he has no motivation to attend to the detail.....

woman12345 · 07/02/2017 22:17

I am quite sure that Trump can read but nice Mr Bannon will help if he finds it difficult! Peregrina Grin

woman12345 · 07/02/2017 22:21

Literacy has nothing to do with intelligence. As I posted before, people who do have difficulty reading are often much more astute, creative and intellectually dextrous in devising mitigating strategies.

And with advances in IT and AI, there will be and is much less need for manual reading and writing.

But he does need to read EOs before signing them. He has said he doesn't.

whatwouldrondo · 07/02/2017 22:22

I seem to have managed to manifest fully my pathetic proof reading abilities there......

woman12345 · 07/02/2017 22:24

And I can't count.Grin

Motheroffourdragons · 07/02/2017 22:25

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Motheroffourdragons · 07/02/2017 22:25

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whatwouldrondo · 07/02/2017 22:30

Another declaration of their intentions, law suit against the DM

'Mail Online’s conduct was extreme and outrageous in falsely making the scurrilous charge that the future First Lady of the United States worked as a prostitute.
Plaintiff had the unique, once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, as an extremely famous and well-known person…to launch a broad-based commercial brand in multiple product categories, each of which could have garnered multi-million dollar business relationships for a multi-year term during which plaintiff is one of the most photographed women in the world.
These product categories would have included, among other things, apparel, accessories, shoes, jewelry, cosmetics, hair care, skin care and fragrance."

No idea where to start on my disgust except it is against the DM, take that hypocrites.....

Peregrina · 07/02/2017 22:32

It is just symbolic, and represents the will of one of our four nations, but in reality, it seems a kind of sad waste of time in the current climate.

Now, I don't agree there. If Theresa May, appeasing her loony right wing, forces a hard Brexit through and it all goes tits up for the country, there will be an awful lot of people desperately trying to distance themselves from it. They will be saying, it wasn't me, I didn't support it. Those MSPs will be able to hold their heads up high and say that it really wasn't them, they have stood up to be counted now.

Peregrina · 07/02/2017 22:34

No idea where to start on my disgust except it is against the DM, take that hypocrites.....

Oh dear. A large bucketful of crocodile tears for the DM from me.

woman12345 · 07/02/2017 22:34

Those MSPs will be able to hold their heads up high and say that it really wasn't them, they have stood up to be counted now.
I agree Peregrina

Motheroffourdragons · 07/02/2017 22:39

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HashiAsLarry · 07/02/2017 22:39

David Blunkett can read though, in Braille, which is fairly readily available in governmental circles.

Motheroffourdragons · 07/02/2017 22:42

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Peregrina · 07/02/2017 22:49

Mother - I suppose it all depends on how bad things get. To make the comparison with the development of fascism a lot of people said they didn't know, and didn't know what to do anyway, but a lot of people did stand up to be counted in the early 1930s. Some of them lost their lives doing so. History honours them. Small comfort I suppose.

Now Theresa May - said she voted Remain. She is now promising to be the architect of Hard Brexit - I look forward to see her wriggling. Except she won't, she will clear off like Cameron did.

CeciledeVolanges · 07/02/2017 22:49

Interesting constitutional comments from Lady Deech at the end of her Bill in view of what is coming: "We all say that this House earns its place in the British constitution because it contains expertise and experience. Do the Government not risk undermining the contribution and reputation of this House when not just today but in the Higher Education and Research Bill—with dozens of vice-chancellors and professors and experts—our comments have just been stonewalled? The Government need to listen to this House if they value it and its place in our constitution, which is what we have all said, and yet the expertise is being dismissed by—dare I say it?—ministries that may know less about the topics than the people who have spoken in the various Bills today and this week. "

HashiAsLarry · 07/02/2017 22:51

mother when I grew up we had a lab rescued by its breeder as it was due to be shot due to being a poor working dog. He was given to us as he was unwanted Sad. He was a lovely giant scaredy cat full of personality. Sorry for the thread derail.

woman12345 · 07/02/2017 22:55

CeciledeVolanges so, HOL gearing up?

Thanks Jezza:
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-news-workers-zero-hours-contracts-rights-warning-a7565761.html

HashiAsLarry · 07/02/2017 23:06

I really want the HOL to throw a spanner in the works. Partly because they have acted in the country's interest over government in several incidents during my lifetime. Partly because of the irony of watching those who claim EU issues of democracy being held up by our own undemocratic democracy. And yes, that is childish as hell. So in reality I just hope they hold government to parliament's account, as they should.

Peregrina · 07/02/2017 23:22

I don't suppose the HoL will be able to throw a spanner in the works in the end, but again like the MSPs at least they will be seen to have tried. So far the only Tory MP who can say that is Ken Clarke.

CeciledeVolanges · 07/02/2017 23:31

I don't know whether they are gearing up for anything but it will be interesting to see what happens. I was surprised and saddened to see the number of MPs who obeyed a whip while saying what a terrible idea it was.

Peregrina · 07/02/2017 23:50

I was surprised and saddened to see the number of MPs who obeyed a whip while saying what a terrible idea it was.

Trying to hedge their bets. Of course, those with Ministerial positions say that they are not allowed to defy the whip. But they are; they could resign from their Ministerial position and return to the backbenches.They would if their principles were strong enough. Clearly their principles aren't really principles because they ditch them at the first sign of inconvenience.

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