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Brexit

Westministenders: Boris is reminded of the Munich Post.

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 07/02/2017 11:36

The Munich Post was the 1930s German Newspaper that refused to normalise. It refused to bow to the threats and intimidation of the Nazi State. It was to eventually closed but it defended the truth to the bitter end.

With Trump’s systematic attacks on the Press and Judiciary we should take heed. We must stand up for our journalists who seek to serve the public rather than serve their masters and only chase profit.

We must ask why, right wing extremists when they make attacks are too frequently labelled simply as lone wolfs who exist within a vacuum, when it is widely accepted by intelligence services that Muslim extremists are often the products of online radicalisation and any element of mental history is totally irrelevant because of their religion.

The PM hiring advertising agents to try and deal with a problem of increasing racial tensions rather than talking to the newspaper executives who she has close relationships with, is a deliberate missing of the point.

It is an abdication of responsibility and is wilfully ignorant.

It is about time we addressed the hole of hatred in our society that exists properly. From all angles and approaches, from all parts of our society. The blind spot in failing to acknowledge how the media’s role in this only serves to fuel the divisions. It has become normalised. Powerful lobbying groups like the Freedom Association continue to deny that populism has contributed to a rise in hate crime pointing to a dislike for how incidents are recorded. Their influence in Westminster is too apparent.

Some of the comments made in the houses of commons and to the media by Tory MPs have been worryingly close to comments made by Trump and his associates. They have been worryingly close to online trolls. They have been laced with too many ‘alternative facts’ and full of exaggerated language about immigrants. Language, its use and context are important and powerful.

These are elected officials with a social responsibility. Instead they are continue to stir things. We no longer need Farage and worry about UKIP. We have a whole bunch of them in the HoC and a quick trawl though Hansard reveals them in all their glory. To a privileged white man they are Trump apologists. During the debate over Trump’s visit to the UK, one even thought it appropriate to woof at a female MP. In 2017.

We might be very British in the way our alternative facts are being expressed but the same threats are very much present within British politics as they are currently in US politics. We might not have anyone quite as brash and brazen as Trump (with the possible exception of Farage), but this makes it more not less dangerous. People like IDS and Johnson add respectably to the thin veneer of hatred and xenophobia.

A50 is likely to pass the commons, without amendment as things stand. (I think we need to watch the Lords with interest) We are perhaps likely to enter a period where things might quieten down in the UK for a time. We must be vigilant and not accept normalisation and continue to make noise about how we feel about the future of this country or we will be dominated by the agenda of these individuals who have little respect for the interests of anyone who is not part of their boys club.

Theresa May may not be one of them, but like Trump she craves their approval and does share many of their values. She is happy to pander to them, and them to her as she makes their toxicity somehow more acceptable.

What women do next is crucial. Do we want to accept this vision of the future? Now is not the time to fall silence and accept that things are equal now. We know the reality. And it affects all of us, regardless of how we voted on 23rd June.

OP posts:
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Peregrina · 11/02/2017 19:06

I didn't wait hours to say it, it was in the same sentence.

You have misunderstood.

You initially made your post just after 10 this morning, and were immediately asked to explain why it was self-indulgent. 8 hours later you manage to say that most blogs are self-indulgent, but you could have said that at 10:30.

I found that blog post moving. I have friends in a similar position. I read your comment as its being 'self-indulgent' not a comment on blogs and social media generally, but as a way of dismissing that woman's experience.

Kaija · 11/02/2017 19:07

"And I did articulate why I said that, in exactly the same sentence in fact:

"as with most blogs, it was very self indulgent & subjective.""

That's not an explanation that's just a re-statement that it was self-indulgent. What did you actually find self-indulgent about it?

Pedantic, I know, but I am intrigued.

HashiAsLarry · 11/02/2017 19:07

Missed the point about my friend voting leave. She wondered initially why people were decrying about unleashing racism. Then she had that crap thrown at her, with the assumption that as she's foreign she must have voted remain. Despite explanation that she's a British citizen and a leave voter she was still told she'd never be a real Brit.

Kaija · 11/02/2017 19:09

". I read your comment as its being 'self-indulgent' not a comment on blogs and social media generally, but as a way of dismissing that woman's experience"

Yes I read it that way too, but would like to be shown to be wrong.

boredofbrexit · 11/02/2017 19:11

Do folk identify as a brit?

I'd say I'm a londoner, a scot and british in that order.

Even scot can be broken down ie highlander/lowlander.

God, even londoner can be broken into sub-sets.

Badders123 · 11/02/2017 19:17

I am a human being
And would like to be treated as such
Simple, really
I am half Irish/half British
Can't say I'm especially proud to be either...I am both by an accident of birth, not by divine providence and neither make me more worthy than anyone else

SemiPermanent · 11/02/2017 19:17

You initially made your post just after 10 this morning, and were immediately asked to explain why it was self-indulgent. 8 hours later you manage to say that most blogs are self-indulgent, but you could have said that at 10:30.

No Peregrina.

My first post re the blog
10:09

Then:
10:22
10:34
10:39

All posts responding/replying to posters who asked me to explain myself.
I did not wait 8 hours to say anything.
Please don't misrepresent me.

TheElementsSong · 11/02/2017 19:18

Do folk identify as a brit?

I'd say , based on the evidence on this forum topic, that plenty of folk are all too ready to identify others as not sufficiently British (y'know, traitors and enemies of the people and all that).

boredofbrexit · 11/02/2017 19:24

Really? I've not picked up on that nuance from mant - if any. Views through a lens.

boredofbrexit · 11/02/2017 19:24

*many, sorry

HashiAsLarry · 11/02/2017 19:25

Do folk identify as a brit?
I am a citizen, no more, no less.

Badders123 · 11/02/2017 19:29

I'm getting myself a "liberal elite snowflake" badge
Fuck it
Out and proud 👍😁

SemiPermanent · 11/02/2017 19:30

Badders Grin
❄️❄️❄️

WrongTrouser · 11/02/2017 19:30

Point of order - calling someone a traitor implies you think they are part of your country (you can't be a traitor to a country other than your own).

dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/traitor

TheElementsSong · 11/02/2017 19:32

calling someone a traitor implies you think they are part of your country

Oh, that makes it A-OK then.

HashiAsLarry · 11/02/2017 19:34

That's good to know, we can't be a proper traitors as if we're not a proper Brits Grin

WrongTrouser · 11/02/2017 19:37

No, it doesn't. I was just pointing out that if someone is calling someone else a traitor (which action I neither condone nor endorse, unless they have done something genuinely traitorous) that does not imply that they think the person is not sufficiently British, which was the deduction you seemed to be making.

TheElementsSong · 11/02/2017 19:38

So if you're a long-term resident but not British, you're not entitled to air your self-indulgent view because you're foreign. But if you are British and don't think Brexit is the magic path to the Sunlit Uplands, then you're a Traitor. Glad we cleared that up Grin.

Badders123 · 11/02/2017 19:38

Wrong...
Are you taking the actual fucking piss!?
😳
I am not selling off the NHS but bit by bit to the US
I am not defunding the education system and demonising teachers and head teachers who point this out
I am not cosying up to turkey and the US whilst ignoring their recent human rights abuses
Don't call me a fucking traitor because I don't agree with your opinion
😡😡😡😡
Coz you know, that's what fucking fascists do - you're in good company though, eh?

Peregrina · 11/02/2017 19:39

The dictionary definition did not stop the authorities from hanging William Joyce for Treason: American born, grew up in Ireland, then became a naturalised German. Although I agree, it's a bit tortuous - his fraudulently obtained British passport was his undoing.

WrongTrouser · 11/02/2017 19:41

This thread has gone very wierd.

So if you're a long-term resident but not British, you're not entitled to air your self-indulgent view because you're foreign. But if you are British and don't think Brexit is the magic path to the Sunlit Uplands, then you're a Traitor. Glad we cleared that up

Where did I say any of this?

Badders123 · 11/02/2017 19:42

In other news...
Amazon nor etsy sell liberal elite snowflake badges 😞
So I shall have to set up a business making and selling them myself
Sigh....
I shall say that they are "artisan" and charge double obv
Wrong...go back the brexit arms - they agree with your views there
You can all bathe in the diffused light that will be the new Albion once we leave the EU
Best of luck x

SemiPermanent · 11/02/2017 19:42

You don't need to actually say stuff Wrong, for it to be attributed to you.
Not on this thread anyway.

WrongTrouser · 11/02/2017 19:42

Badders

Don't call me a fucking traitor because I don't agree with your opinion

Where did I say this?

TheElementsSong · 11/02/2017 19:43

Badders it's clear that Wrong has said she doesn't condone calling people traitors willy-nilly so you should probably calm down on that score. What she is saying is that we should nitpick over what insults we can call people who are considered are not sufficiently British.