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Brexit

Westministenders: Boris is reminded of the Munich Post.

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 07/02/2017 11:36

The Munich Post was the 1930s German Newspaper that refused to normalise. It refused to bow to the threats and intimidation of the Nazi State. It was to eventually closed but it defended the truth to the bitter end.

With Trump’s systematic attacks on the Press and Judiciary we should take heed. We must stand up for our journalists who seek to serve the public rather than serve their masters and only chase profit.

We must ask why, right wing extremists when they make attacks are too frequently labelled simply as lone wolfs who exist within a vacuum, when it is widely accepted by intelligence services that Muslim extremists are often the products of online radicalisation and any element of mental history is totally irrelevant because of their religion.

The PM hiring advertising agents to try and deal with a problem of increasing racial tensions rather than talking to the newspaper executives who she has close relationships with, is a deliberate missing of the point.

It is an abdication of responsibility and is wilfully ignorant.

It is about time we addressed the hole of hatred in our society that exists properly. From all angles and approaches, from all parts of our society. The blind spot in failing to acknowledge how the media’s role in this only serves to fuel the divisions. It has become normalised. Powerful lobbying groups like the Freedom Association continue to deny that populism has contributed to a rise in hate crime pointing to a dislike for how incidents are recorded. Their influence in Westminster is too apparent.

Some of the comments made in the houses of commons and to the media by Tory MPs have been worryingly close to comments made by Trump and his associates. They have been worryingly close to online trolls. They have been laced with too many ‘alternative facts’ and full of exaggerated language about immigrants. Language, its use and context are important and powerful.

These are elected officials with a social responsibility. Instead they are continue to stir things. We no longer need Farage and worry about UKIP. We have a whole bunch of them in the HoC and a quick trawl though Hansard reveals them in all their glory. To a privileged white man they are Trump apologists. During the debate over Trump’s visit to the UK, one even thought it appropriate to woof at a female MP. In 2017.

We might be very British in the way our alternative facts are being expressed but the same threats are very much present within British politics as they are currently in US politics. We might not have anyone quite as brash and brazen as Trump (with the possible exception of Farage), but this makes it more not less dangerous. People like IDS and Johnson add respectably to the thin veneer of hatred and xenophobia.

A50 is likely to pass the commons, without amendment as things stand. (I think we need to watch the Lords with interest) We are perhaps likely to enter a period where things might quieten down in the UK for a time. We must be vigilant and not accept normalisation and continue to make noise about how we feel about the future of this country or we will be dominated by the agenda of these individuals who have little respect for the interests of anyone who is not part of their boys club.

Theresa May may not be one of them, but like Trump she craves their approval and does share many of their values. She is happy to pander to them, and them to her as she makes their toxicity somehow more acceptable.

What women do next is crucial. Do we want to accept this vision of the future? Now is not the time to fall silence and accept that things are equal now. We know the reality. And it affects all of us, regardless of how we voted on 23rd June.

OP posts:
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Badders123 · 11/02/2017 19:45

I'm going to have to rewatch parks and recreation to cheer myself up....

WrongTrouser · 11/02/2017 19:45

I post a couple of comments about the meaning of the word traitor, and whether someone can reasonably accused of thinking someone else isn't British because they call them a traitor, and suddenly I'm calling posters traitors?

I'm talking about what a word means Confused

Badders123 · 11/02/2017 19:46

Am i British enough to be a traitor? 🤔
I agree with EM Forster on that score....

Mistigri · 11/02/2017 19:47

What I object to is being called all the names and shit that are thrown out - because of the way I voted in a free country.

It's a free country, as you say. And some of us are sick of the idea that free speech is a privilege that only applies to bigots.

Comparing the reaction to Trump in America with the reaction to Brexit in Britain is quite instructive. Approval ratings for brexit and trump are not dissimilar, especially if you were to include those disenfranchised by the referendum. And yet the reaction in the UK has been far more passive. It's very odd to watch from a distance: in England (as opposed to Scotland) the only people to show any real balls are Ken Clark and Gary Lineker. A Tory and a fucking footballer!

In Britain we've wasted an awful lot of time trying to "understand the left behind", instead of standing up and saying that a lot of these people have been left behind because of Tory party policies, a failure of public education, and a lack of social mobility and aspiration. In America, Trump's opponents on both left and right have been far less polite and much louder. I don't see too many pissed off Americans trying to understand poor snowflake republicans. They are standing up, calling them out and taking the piss out of them. I applaud and admire their refusal to be polite about it.

Badders123 · 11/02/2017 19:48

Ffs wrong..it is a word being bandied about by the alt right NOW to describe anyone who disagrees with them!!!
Try showing your dictionary definition to people this attitude actually affects!!!!

😳😡

OP posts:
Peregrina · 11/02/2017 19:50

Am i British enough to be a traitor?

Did you fraudulently obtain a British passport? Then yes, you too can be classed as a traitor. Otherwise, I imagine that you would need to be born British or Naturalised, but don't quote me, I am not a lawyer.

HashiAsLarry · 11/02/2017 19:52

I don't think wrong has accused anyone of being a traitor. Not on this thread at least and I cba to advance search it. But it highlights a lot of hypocrisy, I'm either a traitor and a Brit or I'm not a full Brit and therefore can't be a traitor. People like me have been accused of both.

Badders123 · 11/02/2017 19:53

Ah
I'm British by birth
So I can be a traitor!

HashiAsLarry · 11/02/2017 19:54

In the same sentence uttered by the same people on a few occasions. At least I know I have a come back now Grin

Badders123 · 11/02/2017 19:55

Confusing isn't it, hashi?

WrongTrouser · 11/02/2017 19:57

I'm going to leave this thread as it seems to have just deteriorated into people putting words into other people's mouths and then berating them for what they didn't say, which is a waste of everyone's time

I just want to say Elements

What she is saying is that we should nitpick over what insults we can call people who are considered are not sufficiently British

I don't know how you have deduced that that is what I am saying. My posts which seem to have caused such horror were about calling people a traitor and whether this implies that you believe them to belong to the country in question (which I believe it does) or not (which you seemed to be implying).

Fwiw I would call traitorous behaviour things like betraying your country in wartime. But probably pointless trying to clarify really.

TheFullMrexit · 11/02/2017 20:00

wrong come over to the arms and have a sambuca - but watch your eye lids Grin

CeciledeVolanges · 11/02/2017 20:01

I think it is equally problematic both to call everyone who voted Leave a xenophobic racist or stupid, and to ascribe that view to everyone or anyone who voted Remain. 16 million is a lot of people. 17 million is even more. 33 million is a lot of different individuals with different motivations and nobody will achieve anything unless we accept that.

WidowWadman · 11/02/2017 20:05

Wouldn't call all leavers xenophobic racists, but leave voters will have to live with the fact that xenophobic racists have used their votes to support their agenda. I'm quite happy to believe that many didn't vote for Brexit because of Farrage and his ilk, but they voted for it despite him, because they didn't care enough about the implications, and that's in my view not much better.

HashiAsLarry · 11/02/2017 20:06

Very true cecile. I try hard not to judge all leave voters by the idiots I see in my local area. Much like I try not to think all remainers are intelligent nice people by reminding myself Jeremy Clarkson voted remain largely

Mistigri · 11/02/2017 20:08

I think it is equally problematic both to call everyone who voted Leave a xenophobic racist or stupid

I don't think 17 million people are racist (OTOH, I'd hazard a guess that the roughly 25% of leave voters who are kippers bloody well ARE racist.)

OTOH, in the absence of any sensible arguments or plans from the leave camp, I'm very comfortable with assuming that most of that 17 million are either credulous, incurious, or not very bright.

CeciledeVolanges · 11/02/2017 20:15

Agreed Mistigri

CeciledeVolanges · 11/02/2017 20:30

Sorry referring to your earlier post

prettybird · 11/02/2017 20:52

I am not British by birth but am naturalised British.

I am however no longer proud to say I'm British Sad Indeed, I will never fill a form in saying British - I will always say Scottish.

This despite spending my year in France explaining, "Je suis ecossaise et britannique. Je ne suis pas anglaise".

I would no longer do that. Sad

RufusTheSpartacusReindeer · 11/02/2017 21:40

Thank you wrong

I like curry but curry doesnt like me

RufusTheSpartacusReindeer · 11/02/2017 21:53

pretty

Fair enough, but i wouldnt let a load of fuckwits define me

I say i am british because i was born in wales but brought up in england

I say i am welsh if they are winning the rugby and english if they are winning...i am fair like that Grin

HashiAsLarry · 11/02/2017 22:00

rufus I adopted a policy of supporting whoever is technically the underdog. That way there's no real disappointment. I get the joy if team x win but still the happiness that team y are so good Grin

prettybird · 11/02/2017 22:01

I am still happy to define myself as Scottish Smile

....as is my dad, despite his South African accent Grin he even, finally, supports South Africa if they are playing England Wink

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