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Brexit

Westministenders: Boris is reminded of the Munich Post.

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 07/02/2017 11:36

The Munich Post was the 1930s German Newspaper that refused to normalise. It refused to bow to the threats and intimidation of the Nazi State. It was to eventually closed but it defended the truth to the bitter end.

With Trump’s systematic attacks on the Press and Judiciary we should take heed. We must stand up for our journalists who seek to serve the public rather than serve their masters and only chase profit.

We must ask why, right wing extremists when they make attacks are too frequently labelled simply as lone wolfs who exist within a vacuum, when it is widely accepted by intelligence services that Muslim extremists are often the products of online radicalisation and any element of mental history is totally irrelevant because of their religion.

The PM hiring advertising agents to try and deal with a problem of increasing racial tensions rather than talking to the newspaper executives who she has close relationships with, is a deliberate missing of the point.

It is an abdication of responsibility and is wilfully ignorant.

It is about time we addressed the hole of hatred in our society that exists properly. From all angles and approaches, from all parts of our society. The blind spot in failing to acknowledge how the media’s role in this only serves to fuel the divisions. It has become normalised. Powerful lobbying groups like the Freedom Association continue to deny that populism has contributed to a rise in hate crime pointing to a dislike for how incidents are recorded. Their influence in Westminster is too apparent.

Some of the comments made in the houses of commons and to the media by Tory MPs have been worryingly close to comments made by Trump and his associates. They have been worryingly close to online trolls. They have been laced with too many ‘alternative facts’ and full of exaggerated language about immigrants. Language, its use and context are important and powerful.

These are elected officials with a social responsibility. Instead they are continue to stir things. We no longer need Farage and worry about UKIP. We have a whole bunch of them in the HoC and a quick trawl though Hansard reveals them in all their glory. To a privileged white man they are Trump apologists. During the debate over Trump’s visit to the UK, one even thought it appropriate to woof at a female MP. In 2017.

We might be very British in the way our alternative facts are being expressed but the same threats are very much present within British politics as they are currently in US politics. We might not have anyone quite as brash and brazen as Trump (with the possible exception of Farage), but this makes it more not less dangerous. People like IDS and Johnson add respectably to the thin veneer of hatred and xenophobia.

A50 is likely to pass the commons, without amendment as things stand. (I think we need to watch the Lords with interest) We are perhaps likely to enter a period where things might quieten down in the UK for a time. We must be vigilant and not accept normalisation and continue to make noise about how we feel about the future of this country or we will be dominated by the agenda of these individuals who have little respect for the interests of anyone who is not part of their boys club.

Theresa May may not be one of them, but like Trump she craves their approval and does share many of their values. She is happy to pander to them, and them to her as she makes their toxicity somehow more acceptable.

What women do next is crucial. Do we want to accept this vision of the future? Now is not the time to fall silence and accept that things are equal now. We know the reality. And it affects all of us, regardless of how we voted on 23rd June.

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Peregrina · 11/02/2017 18:33

Red and Yellow - they would have to have been living in Britain, to be on the Register of Electors.

I am annoyed by a relative who voted Leave. He still holds a British passport, but has made his adult life elsewhere, (and no, doesn't see the need to take out citizenship of his adopted country). His firm sent him here on a one year placement, and he got on the register of electors, voted on a bit of a whimsy, and then promptly cleared off again. It won't affect him or his family, but it will affect his brother, cousins and my family. His contribution to this country has been the one year's worth of tax that he paid. Thanks but no thanks.

SemiPermanent · 11/02/2017 18:35

a remainer says something you disagree with and it's * Shock* Such hatred and Division!

Well, saying you "really do fucking hate brexiters, with a very few exceptions" and asserting that "99% of the leaver posts on MN are either clueless or racist or both." is quite extreme imo.

RufusTheSpartacusReindeer · 11/02/2017 18:36

I think you have to be fucking stupid to think that if you are born in a country that you cannot denigrate part of it

Happy to agree if you hate and loathe every atom of britain then maybe you should move

But i have never heard anyone on these threads do that

TheElementsSong · 11/02/2017 18:36

immigrants who settle in UK ostensibly because they identify with its values, enjoy its culture

You mean, like the woman whose blogpost was the subject of trying's comment? The blogpost of someone who had made her life here, and was now feeling like the very "values and culture" were not what she had believed they were? The blogpost that several leavers then dismissed as "self-indulgent" but couldn't articulate why except for trying whose comment implied strongly that it was the very temerity of an immigrant having an opinion that is self-indulgent?

RedAndYellowStripe · 11/02/2017 18:37

Nope the way I read it is that because one isn't British then one has no say in the politics of the country. And also has no right to moan about any decision taken.
I don't know where this is coming from but as I said, this is an attitude that I have taken myself and I certainly wouldn't dare making comment in RL.
It probably has similar roots than all the 'well if you like it here so much, you should have taken the britsih citizenship before. So don't complain'.

RufusTheSpartacusReindeer · 11/02/2017 18:37

I dont like the weather

And dh has just had the rugby on

But i like marmite...and sherlock

RufusTheSpartacusReindeer · 11/02/2017 18:38

Agree with red

RufusTheSpartacusReindeer · 11/02/2017 18:39

I am going out

FOR A CURRY!!

I like curry, i realise that is not a technically british meal and that you can get curry all over the world

WrongTrouser · 11/02/2017 18:39

Hello there birdy

You are like a little second conscience popping onto my shoulder to pick me up on my words, and always with a little reminder of what else I have said Grin

  1. Please read my cross post with yours to see my comment on the comment, no, not totally cool

  2. I possibly don't comment on a lot of the lefty liberal jibes in the Arms because I am a lefty liberal and am pretty exasperated with the way a lot of the liberal lefties are behaving at the moment. I also think a lot of it is quite light hearted, there are people of all political views in the Arms - that is okay, you know Grin

RufusTheSpartacusReindeer · 11/02/2017 18:40

Its a shame i am going out otherwise i would fill the thread with banal bollocks

A bit like my entire posting history

WrongTrouser · 11/02/2017 18:43

Have a nice curry rufus

HashiAsLarry · 11/02/2017 18:44

red this is the old harking back to my childhood. doesn't matter if you are British, or how far back your roots go - you've been tainted by an association that was never your choice. You'll never be fully British, or ever understand the values even if they're all you've ever known. Probably its dodgy blood or genetics. An attitude I hope had largely died off, but now is being seen more and more in the mainstream.

And if people wonder why other Brits denigrate things, when you're brought up being told you'll never be British enough you know the answer to EU citizens being 'you should have taken UK citizenship' is not actually a solution that will be accepted by people who air or hold those views either.

Badders123 · 11/02/2017 18:44

The brexit arms is like one of Nigel farages wet dreams 😖
I dunno - it all feels like such a step backwards to me.
I remember my mum telling me about when she and her family/friends came over from Ireland....
It was considered acceptable for landlords to state
"No pets/no Irish"
This was the 1960s, not the 1900s!!
Hard to believe but back then the UK was calling out for both skilled and unskilled labour.
And it will happen again
The EU immigrants will leave in droves (and who could blame them!?) and we will
Instead have to take immigrants from India and turkey (who TM is desperately trying to cosy up to) as part of trade deals
The UK will become a haven for tax dodgers
What a grand future we all have to look
Forward to
😞

birdybirdywoofwoof · 11/02/2017 18:45

I am, I just don't like the hypocrisy of it that's all.

HashiAsLarry · 11/02/2017 18:45

I imagine all of Farage's wet dreams include pubs Grin

prettybird · 11/02/2017 18:46

I'm an immigrant - albeit a naturalised one - as is my father (my mother was born in Scotland - fortuitously - during the war as her Australian architect father was working on the Rolls Royce factory in Glasgow as part of the war effort, so she was able to bring my dad and her young children in to the country).

We have however committed to this country and wouldn't want to go back to the country of my birth.

Having been a supporter of the "Union" in 1979, I am now disillusioned with it and no longer think it is fit for purpose. By that, I mean the UK - not the EU.

There is a lot that can be done to improve the EU, but from my perspective, the democratic deficit is far greater with Westminster than with Strasbourg.

I have strong opinions about what happens in lots of countries in fact dh gets fed up with me ranting : in particular, South Africa (where I was born), the USA (because of its former status as "the leader of the free world"), France (because I have a degree in French), Germany (because of Merkel's influence) and NZ (where we emigrated to/from in my teens).

I was a strong supporter of both the economic and sporting boycott of South Africa. It worked - especially the sporting boycott (you need to understand the obsession that white South Africans had/have with sport)

I don't see anything wrong with taking an interest in world affairs - I think it is healthy. Things happening around the world do make a difference to our lives.

I do not like the implication that those of us who voted Remain should put up and shut up. To be fair, even the Leave voters on these threads (well, most of them Wink) don't suggest that. But I really really resent May saying that she has the support of 65 million in what she is doing. She doesn't. Angry

I will continue to fight, shout, comment, campaign against a Hard Brexit.

I at least have a possible alternative - and I will be campaigning actively for that Grin. Refugees from FUKD welcome. Wink

SemiPermanent · 11/02/2017 18:46

The blogpost that several leavers then dismissed as "self-indulgent" but couldn't articulate why

It was me that said it was self indulgent.

And I did articulate why I said that, in exactly the same sentence in fact:

"as with most blogs, it was very self indulgent & subjective."

Just for clarity:
Most blog posts are self indulgent

Badders123 · 11/02/2017 18:48

Ewwww
I think I need to go and have a shower now...
😳😖
Fan result for 🇮🇪 In the rugby!! 🏉

RedAndYellowStripe · 11/02/2017 18:49

Hashi all this is actually highlighting a lot of issues for me in my relationship to some of the Brits where I live :(
I truly want NOT to see all these relationships (and their issue) under the light of 'you're not good enough and never will be'. But doing so explains a hell of a lot.

Maybe I should have listen to my gut feelings.

unicornsIlovethem · 11/02/2017 18:51

Thank you Hashi and Prettybird that sums up how I feel too.

I'm a British citizen from a family of British citizens.

I haven't lived anywhere else so I'm a bit taken aback to find I'm no longer British enough and I'm actually apparently a citizen of nowhere because I (and 16 million other people) are now being ignored.

Peregrina · 11/02/2017 18:51

But you now say that most blog posts are self indulgent. How many hours after you first said it?

By that token our postings here are self-indulgent - we think we have an opinion worth expressing and we do so.

SemiPermanent · 11/02/2017 18:54

It was all in the same post Peregrina - a two line post, saying:

As with all blogs, it was very subjective & self indulgent.

I didn't wait hours to say it, it was in the same sentence.

WrongTrouser · 11/02/2017 18:57

birdy I am not a hypocrite, thank you. I am now going to go and read some Freud.

HashiAsLarry · 11/02/2017 19:03

It's an attitude I'm well versed in thanks to my DFs family. The younger generations are largely appalled and don't share those views, in fact some of them have even gone on to have lives with foreigners or people of other races much to the older generations abject disgust Grin.

It's shocked me to see it aired so publicly again. A very close friend voted leave, she is naturalised but born and largely raised in South Africa. She remembers apartheid. She was shocked to have people tell her she wasn't a proper Brit. I've recently been told I can't be half, by not ridding myself of my other nationality I'm a traitor or a mudblood as I like to say proudly. People who once swore those views were awful have come to the fore defending them. You find out who your friends are at times like these.

birdybirdywoofwoof · 11/02/2017 19:05

Freud - a refugee we opened our arms to. A very good choice, Wrong.