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Brexit

Westministenders: Boris is reminded of the Munich Post.

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 07/02/2017 11:36

The Munich Post was the 1930s German Newspaper that refused to normalise. It refused to bow to the threats and intimidation of the Nazi State. It was to eventually closed but it defended the truth to the bitter end.

With Trump’s systematic attacks on the Press and Judiciary we should take heed. We must stand up for our journalists who seek to serve the public rather than serve their masters and only chase profit.

We must ask why, right wing extremists when they make attacks are too frequently labelled simply as lone wolfs who exist within a vacuum, when it is widely accepted by intelligence services that Muslim extremists are often the products of online radicalisation and any element of mental history is totally irrelevant because of their religion.

The PM hiring advertising agents to try and deal with a problem of increasing racial tensions rather than talking to the newspaper executives who she has close relationships with, is a deliberate missing of the point.

It is an abdication of responsibility and is wilfully ignorant.

It is about time we addressed the hole of hatred in our society that exists properly. From all angles and approaches, from all parts of our society. The blind spot in failing to acknowledge how the media’s role in this only serves to fuel the divisions. It has become normalised. Powerful lobbying groups like the Freedom Association continue to deny that populism has contributed to a rise in hate crime pointing to a dislike for how incidents are recorded. Their influence in Westminster is too apparent.

Some of the comments made in the houses of commons and to the media by Tory MPs have been worryingly close to comments made by Trump and his associates. They have been worryingly close to online trolls. They have been laced with too many ‘alternative facts’ and full of exaggerated language about immigrants. Language, its use and context are important and powerful.

These are elected officials with a social responsibility. Instead they are continue to stir things. We no longer need Farage and worry about UKIP. We have a whole bunch of them in the HoC and a quick trawl though Hansard reveals them in all their glory. To a privileged white man they are Trump apologists. During the debate over Trump’s visit to the UK, one even thought it appropriate to woof at a female MP. In 2017.

We might be very British in the way our alternative facts are being expressed but the same threats are very much present within British politics as they are currently in US politics. We might not have anyone quite as brash and brazen as Trump (with the possible exception of Farage), but this makes it more not less dangerous. People like IDS and Johnson add respectably to the thin veneer of hatred and xenophobia.

A50 is likely to pass the commons, without amendment as things stand. (I think we need to watch the Lords with interest) We are perhaps likely to enter a period where things might quieten down in the UK for a time. We must be vigilant and not accept normalisation and continue to make noise about how we feel about the future of this country or we will be dominated by the agenda of these individuals who have little respect for the interests of anyone who is not part of their boys club.

Theresa May may not be one of them, but like Trump she craves their approval and does share many of their values. She is happy to pander to them, and them to her as she makes their toxicity somehow more acceptable.

What women do next is crucial. Do we want to accept this vision of the future? Now is not the time to fall silence and accept that things are equal now. We know the reality. And it affects all of us, regardless of how we voted on 23rd June.

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whatwouldrondo · 09/02/2017 15:53

But Pelegrina* she is going to negotiate access for our services industry even though immigration is her priority. It must be true, despite what every EU politician / official has said, and the way that banks have now pressed the trigger to move, becaiuse she put it in her marvellous rushed crap failed A level standard white paper sadly not eaten by the dog

TatianaLarina · 09/02/2017 15:53

Please don't add to any distress and uncertainty EU nationals in the UK are facing by telling them that most leavers want them to leave - it is not true

Don't be ridiculous. The real problem is Leavers telling EU nationals to leave...

CeciledeVolanges · 09/02/2017 16:05

The Lords have debated on reforming themselves as well.

SemiPermanent · 09/02/2017 16:13

*Single market, customs union, free movement & all other aspects of Brexit will be scrutinised & addressed democratically by both houses during the course of the Brexit process.

This is the memo I have missed.*

I believe it was outlined in section 1 of the white paper, rather than in memo form.

RedAndYellowStripe · 09/02/2017 16:14

May I point out that EU did offer the ssibility of a European citizenship to all Brits after Brexit, as a choice (so you could choose to take it or not).
If that isn't a way to guarantee to rights of British people in the eu, I don't know what it is TBH as it would guarantee to rights of Brits in the eu but also the rights of any British person who wants to.

So as far as I am concerned, the EU has sent a nice proposal which protects any British person in the eu.
What is interesting is that TM didn't seem keen on taking it on nor in acknowledging that it would that too.

So I will carry on thinking that what she wants is to send back as many people as she possibly do (either due to following international laws - I don't think she could send away a whole group of people just because they are coming fromxx country- or because it will be obvious that it will create too many issues for the country itself).

Tbh if she has so far send 50000 people away wo anyone here so much grumbling about the unfairness of her system, I can't see being an issue for her to send away 1+ million people (1/3of applicants for the permanent residence card are failed so I'm assuming she will be quite happy to send all those away)

SemiPermanent · 09/02/2017 16:18

I am envious of anyone who has the time to post 24/7

Well, I hardly do that, anymore than others on these threads do Grin

Being a single parent of teens and living away from family means I spend an awful lot of time alone unfortunately, so I do tend to go on the mn app more often.
If I had the distractions of another adult living with me or young children, then I suspect i would post a lot less.

boredofbrexit · 09/02/2017 17:01

(or maybe you'd switch to posting in other topics semi Grin like relationships or potty training or school gates feuds)

WrongTrouser · 09/02/2017 17:12

I think it takes people with a lot of stamina and dedication to continue arguing 'against the trend' on MN (or RL)

Cath You might want to check with a newspaper? I'm not sure if your current affairs knowledge is quite up-to-date.

Motheroffourdragons · 09/02/2017 17:21

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Peregrina · 09/02/2017 17:28

Is this before or after she said she had the support of 65 million people ?

All I took from that is that her skills in arithmetic are severely lacking.

HashiAsLarry · 09/02/2017 17:31

I took it as a sign of her complete delusion Grin

SapphireStrange · 09/02/2017 17:36

All I took from that is that her skills in arithmetic are severely lacking.

Yeah, me too. I said as much to my MP Diane fucking Abbott.

Although, considering that the paper also bare-facedly admits that Parliament has remained sovereign throughout our EU membership, before trashing that admission because it 'hasn't always felt like that', maybe it's too generous to assume that she's just a bit dim and we should be assuming more sinister motives.

HashiAsLarry · 09/02/2017 17:39

Baroness Ludford is already having to explain what the job of the Lords is to people who assume that any amendment to the bill is scuppering Brexit Hmm.

HashiAsLarry · 09/02/2017 17:40

And meanwhile, in complete pot kettle irony, MPs have just passed a motion of no confidence in the FA and its ability to reform itself.

Motheroffourdragons · 09/02/2017 17:42

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CathKidding · 09/02/2017 17:54

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CeciledeVolanges · 09/02/2017 18:19

Martin Wolf has written an article in the FT: May's policies make a mockery of her rhetoric apparently. I can't be the only one for whom this is absolutely not a surprise at all and who didn't believe her in the first place? And I'm generally abnormally credulous.

Peregrina · 09/02/2017 19:08

May's policies make a mockery of her rhetoric apparently

Not at all surprised. Her first speech on the steps of No 10 talked about putting Workers on company boards. That idea was scrapped smartish. She talks about helping the Just About Managing, but has done nothing for Health, Social Care, Transport - all things which would help the Just About Managing as well as those who can't keep their heads above water.

Meanwhile, sweetheart deals for Surrey County Council...... which just happens to have Hunt, Hammond and Greyling a MPs. Not heard of any sweetheart deals for counties in the north and west yet.

SwedishEdith · 09/02/2017 19:12

I don't know what I believed about her as she purposely kept her head down. She clearly picked Remain as assumed it would win regardless of what she believed in. I'm still not clear she has any vision about anything but her obsession with immigration does not fit with someone with pro-EU or progressive views.

I do wonder about how much contact she has with young people.

WrongTrouser · 09/02/2017 19:21

Please don't add to any distress and uncertainty EU nationals in the UK are facing by telling them that most leavers want them to leave - it is not true

Don't be ridiculous. The real problem is Leavers telling EU nationals to leave...

Do you honestly think there is nothing wrong with incorrectly stating that the majority of leave voters want all EU nationals to leave? Really?

CeciledeVolanges · 09/02/2017 19:25

I do wonder about how much contact she has with young *people
*
Fixed it for you :)

WrongTrouser · 09/02/2017 19:25

Cath Can I request please that you either explicitly say you think one of more of the leave posters on this thread is paid to post, or stop insinuating that this is the case?

I think there needs to be a certain level of politeness on these threads and one aspect of this is accepting that people whose views you disagree with have just as much right to post as you do.

It's like Groundhog Day on here at the moment.

HashiAsLarry · 09/02/2017 19:26

Leave voters gave those elements the confidence to do this. And that was obvious from before the referendum. Lie with dogs, get up with fleas.

Peregrina · 09/02/2017 19:32

Do you honestly think there is nothing wrong with incorrectly stating that the majority of leave voters want all EU nationals to leave? Really?

Who can say? No one has asked the question. Probably not, but I feel it's a little like when you challenge someone with what might be called moderate racist views. When they sound off about too many E Europeans, Blacks, Asians, and you remind them that their nice dentist is Asian, or the nurse who treated them well and with compassion, they come out with '" I don't mean them".

It is mostly E Europeans that people seem to object to - I don't remember an excessive amount of intolerance towards say, French or Italians - or no more than the intolerance meted out to someone who comes from a different part of the country.

BigChocFrenzy · 09/02/2017 19:33

Tory councillor retweets a racist message about Diane Abbott
originally sent by a “patriot and skinhead” supporting Ukip.
His local party originally defended him, but were finally over-ruled by the national party who suspended him

Abbott was portrayed as an ape wearing lipstick

That's typical of what the alt right and white supremacists tweeted about Michelle Obama.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/09/alan-pearmain-conservative-official-suspended-over-racist-tweet-aimed-at-diane-abbott

Abbott is subjected to threats of rape & death, frequent racist & sexist hate mail and harassment, which her office has reported to the police.
Mails like "pathetic useless fat black piece of … pondslime who ought to be hanged."

Terrifying how the far right are hounding MPs, especially women and especially ethnic minority women
We shouldn't be too harsh at those politicians who can't take the abuse and who just back away when it comes to standing up to the fascists. Easy to be brave from a keyboard.

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