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Brexit

Westministenders: Boris is reminded of the Munich Post.

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 07/02/2017 11:36

The Munich Post was the 1930s German Newspaper that refused to normalise. It refused to bow to the threats and intimidation of the Nazi State. It was to eventually closed but it defended the truth to the bitter end.

With Trump’s systematic attacks on the Press and Judiciary we should take heed. We must stand up for our journalists who seek to serve the public rather than serve their masters and only chase profit.

We must ask why, right wing extremists when they make attacks are too frequently labelled simply as lone wolfs who exist within a vacuum, when it is widely accepted by intelligence services that Muslim extremists are often the products of online radicalisation and any element of mental history is totally irrelevant because of their religion.

The PM hiring advertising agents to try and deal with a problem of increasing racial tensions rather than talking to the newspaper executives who she has close relationships with, is a deliberate missing of the point.

It is an abdication of responsibility and is wilfully ignorant.

It is about time we addressed the hole of hatred in our society that exists properly. From all angles and approaches, from all parts of our society. The blind spot in failing to acknowledge how the media’s role in this only serves to fuel the divisions. It has become normalised. Powerful lobbying groups like the Freedom Association continue to deny that populism has contributed to a rise in hate crime pointing to a dislike for how incidents are recorded. Their influence in Westminster is too apparent.

Some of the comments made in the houses of commons and to the media by Tory MPs have been worryingly close to comments made by Trump and his associates. They have been worryingly close to online trolls. They have been laced with too many ‘alternative facts’ and full of exaggerated language about immigrants. Language, its use and context are important and powerful.

These are elected officials with a social responsibility. Instead they are continue to stir things. We no longer need Farage and worry about UKIP. We have a whole bunch of them in the HoC and a quick trawl though Hansard reveals them in all their glory. To a privileged white man they are Trump apologists. During the debate over Trump’s visit to the UK, one even thought it appropriate to woof at a female MP. In 2017.

We might be very British in the way our alternative facts are being expressed but the same threats are very much present within British politics as they are currently in US politics. We might not have anyone quite as brash and brazen as Trump (with the possible exception of Farage), but this makes it more not less dangerous. People like IDS and Johnson add respectably to the thin veneer of hatred and xenophobia.

A50 is likely to pass the commons, without amendment as things stand. (I think we need to watch the Lords with interest) We are perhaps likely to enter a period where things might quieten down in the UK for a time. We must be vigilant and not accept normalisation and continue to make noise about how we feel about the future of this country or we will be dominated by the agenda of these individuals who have little respect for the interests of anyone who is not part of their boys club.

Theresa May may not be one of them, but like Trump she craves their approval and does share many of their values. She is happy to pander to them, and them to her as she makes their toxicity somehow more acceptable.

What women do next is crucial. Do we want to accept this vision of the future? Now is not the time to fall silence and accept that things are equal now. We know the reality. And it affects all of us, regardless of how we voted on 23rd June.

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Peregrina · 09/02/2017 14:38

I didn't actually say Leavers not giving a Shiny shit, I said, most people, although 'many' might have been better. So this includes Leavers, Remainers, and especially those who didn't vote.This last category is something like a quarter of the electorate. Some would have felt that the matter was too complex for them to vote on but a majority of these, it has to be assumed, were not sufficiently interested.

I am not counting the ones who were disenfranchised, because postal or proxy votes didn't arrive, or were EU citizens or people abroad, or 16-17 year olds. Some were prevented by southern rail and flooding to get to the polls, so not those either.

TatianaLarina · 09/02/2017 14:42

The EU can't guarantee residence rights of UK citizens in EU countries as we are leaving. After Brexit they will be subject to individual countries' immigration laws.

Motheroffourdragons · 09/02/2017 14:43

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ to protect the privacy of the user.

SapphireStrange · 09/02/2017 14:46

Single market, customs union, free movement & all other aspects of Brexit will be scrutinised & addressed democratically by both houses during the course of the Brexit process.

This is the memo I have missed.

Yeah, I wasn't on that email group either, clearly.

Not much 'addressing democratically' has gone on so far. Keir Starmer and Jeremy Corbyn protest too much, IMO, about now being the time to roll up their sleeves and fight. I think they've missed the last bus.

WrongTrouser · 09/02/2017 14:53

Possibly most of the leavers want the UK citizens abroad to stay there and the EU ones living in the UK out so the NHS will be magically fixed

No, they don't. A number of credible polls have shown that the vast majority of remainers and leavers don't want this.

Please don't add to any distress and uncertainty EU nationals in the UK are facing by telling them that most leavers want them to leave - it is not true.

Kaija · 09/02/2017 15:00

We're screwed if a significant number of EU citizens do decide to up and leave. I think even most Brexiters know this.

unicornsIlovethem · 09/02/2017 15:09

Theresa May wants the EU residents in the uk to leave and the expats to stay away so she has some chance of meeting her net migration target in her lifetime.

It doesn't matter whether anyone else wants that. Or at least not till 2020.

CathKidding · 09/02/2017 15:13

"Cath I work on a screen that has breaking news on a ticker tape. HTH"

BoredofBrexit are you actually allowed to spend time on MN during working hours? You must have a generous and supportive employer.

And I very much doubt that Letwin would feature on a news ticker lol, unless new filter has been customised.

CathKidding · 09/02/2017 15:13

*News

Peregrina · 09/02/2017 15:16

It doesn't matter whether anyone else wants that. Or at least not till 2020

Quite so, when suddenly a whole bunch of MPs will find that there are people called 'Constituents' out there.

boredofbrexit · 09/02/2017 15:19

Cath, I am the employer. And I am very generousWink

WrongTrouser · 09/02/2017 15:19

Theresa May wants the EU residents in the uk to leave and the expats to stay away so she has some chance of meeting her net migration target in her lifetime.

Why was she trying to negotiate a reciprocal deal so that they could stay then? Why has a deal very nearly been agreed between the UK and Spain? Do you have any evidence that this is TM's thinking other than it suits your arguments?

CathKidding · 09/02/2017 15:20

"Abolishing the Lords now. Ah that's number 74 on things that weren't on the fucking ballot paper."

Yes, it'll be the royal family next. And then the workhouse followed by ships of fools. Hurrah for Brexit.

boredofbrexit · 09/02/2017 15:21

Customised tickering is the way to go, mumsnet and business news.

CathKidding · 09/02/2017 15:21

"Cath, I am the employer. And I am very generous" Damn. But that's great for you, what sort of business?

SapphireStrange · 09/02/2017 15:22

Customised tickering is the way to go, mumsnet and business news.

No! Really???

Peregrina · 09/02/2017 15:23

Why has a deal very nearly been agreed between the UK and Spain?

I wouldn't say that a casual conversation was a deal very nearly agreed myself. I would say it required paperwork to be read and digested, amendments made and then a final document put on the table for signatures.

boredofbrexit · 09/02/2017 15:23

WrongTrouser..whatever they want it to be, has to be. I've been told whats going on in my own officeHmm

boredofbrexit · 09/02/2017 15:24

Sapphire rolling business news (and an open mn window actually)Grin

boredofbrexit · 09/02/2017 15:25

Odd question for an internet forum Cath.

whatwouldrondo · 09/02/2017 15:27

First it was the Lords, and now if you work in business and you dare to highlight the huge risks of Brexit, they will come for you too www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/11127836/Businesses-that-speak-out-for-Britains-EU-membership-will-be-punished-vows-John-Redwood

A part of the leaver trope now seems to be not just defining all remainers as moaning members of the liberal elite but all businesses as exploitative and immoral. I have never worked for a business that was exploitative and immoral. It is actually recognised in business that if you want to run a sustainable business in the long term you need to treat your employees, customers, suppliers and wider society well. There is a reason that Trumps business lurched from one crisis to the next. Sports Direct is a young business and already beyond the capabilities of its wheeler dealer boss to cope, it ain't good for business to be hauled before government for sharp practise. However how much easier to lump them all together and brand them as the lowest common denominator instead of listening to the people who are running the businesses that actually deliver competitive advantage to the UK. I just drove past a British Consulate, it has a huge red white and blue flag on the doors and a poster declaring the benefits of our world beating services industry, a gateway to Europe. It made me want to weep......

I know plenty of leavers who felt that they did not want to be part of what the EU had become but did understand the benefits of the single market, in fact I don't know anyone at all who thinks a hard Brexit is anything but economic suicide, perhaps Corcory could advise them on how they get their voices heard?

boredofbrexit · 09/02/2017 15:29

In the interests of disclosure I am not in the fields of journalism or politics.

SemiPermanent · 09/02/2017 15:36

Lol at Cath calling out specific people, yet apparently blind to the countless others 😂

Thanks for the name-check though - nice to be noticed!

Peregrina · 09/02/2017 15:46

I just drove past a British Consulate, it has a huge red white and blue flag on the doors and a poster declaring the benefits of our world beating services industry, a gateway to Europe.

I wonder whether Theresa May believes the guff she spouts?
She had 50,000 students kicked out on spurious charges. If each of them tells 5 or ten friends at home how they were treated that's a lot of people who aren't going to believe her words. Similarly world beating services - when banks are drawing up plans to relocate some functions. The we have her jolly to India, announced with great fanfare, and a much quieter return because the Indians wanted more visas for their citizens. And on and on.....

CathKidding · 09/02/2017 15:50

Semi you're welcome, I think your comments on this thread are giving the discussion added dimension. I think it takes people with a lot of stamina and dedication to continue arguing 'against the trend' on MN (or RL). I am envious of anyone who has the time to post 24/7 but maybe that will be me as I will be on maternity leave soon. I wouldn't take it terribly seriously though I hope.