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Brexit

Westministenders: Boris is reminded of the Munich Post.

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 07/02/2017 11:36

The Munich Post was the 1930s German Newspaper that refused to normalise. It refused to bow to the threats and intimidation of the Nazi State. It was to eventually closed but it defended the truth to the bitter end.

With Trump’s systematic attacks on the Press and Judiciary we should take heed. We must stand up for our journalists who seek to serve the public rather than serve their masters and only chase profit.

We must ask why, right wing extremists when they make attacks are too frequently labelled simply as lone wolfs who exist within a vacuum, when it is widely accepted by intelligence services that Muslim extremists are often the products of online radicalisation and any element of mental history is totally irrelevant because of their religion.

The PM hiring advertising agents to try and deal with a problem of increasing racial tensions rather than talking to the newspaper executives who she has close relationships with, is a deliberate missing of the point.

It is an abdication of responsibility and is wilfully ignorant.

It is about time we addressed the hole of hatred in our society that exists properly. From all angles and approaches, from all parts of our society. The blind spot in failing to acknowledge how the media’s role in this only serves to fuel the divisions. It has become normalised. Powerful lobbying groups like the Freedom Association continue to deny that populism has contributed to a rise in hate crime pointing to a dislike for how incidents are recorded. Their influence in Westminster is too apparent.

Some of the comments made in the houses of commons and to the media by Tory MPs have been worryingly close to comments made by Trump and his associates. They have been worryingly close to online trolls. They have been laced with too many ‘alternative facts’ and full of exaggerated language about immigrants. Language, its use and context are important and powerful.

These are elected officials with a social responsibility. Instead they are continue to stir things. We no longer need Farage and worry about UKIP. We have a whole bunch of them in the HoC and a quick trawl though Hansard reveals them in all their glory. To a privileged white man they are Trump apologists. During the debate over Trump’s visit to the UK, one even thought it appropriate to woof at a female MP. In 2017.

We might be very British in the way our alternative facts are being expressed but the same threats are very much present within British politics as they are currently in US politics. We might not have anyone quite as brash and brazen as Trump (with the possible exception of Farage), but this makes it more not less dangerous. People like IDS and Johnson add respectably to the thin veneer of hatred and xenophobia.

A50 is likely to pass the commons, without amendment as things stand. (I think we need to watch the Lords with interest) We are perhaps likely to enter a period where things might quieten down in the UK for a time. We must be vigilant and not accept normalisation and continue to make noise about how we feel about the future of this country or we will be dominated by the agenda of these individuals who have little respect for the interests of anyone who is not part of their boys club.

Theresa May may not be one of them, but like Trump she craves their approval and does share many of their values. She is happy to pander to them, and them to her as she makes their toxicity somehow more acceptable.

What women do next is crucial. Do we want to accept this vision of the future? Now is not the time to fall silence and accept that things are equal now. We know the reality. And it affects all of us, regardless of how we voted on 23rd June.

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mathanxiety · 09/02/2017 13:08

A democratic majority vote for what, Bored?

For a hard Brexit?

For an end to immigration?

For a cherry picked arrangement?

Did the referendum really authorise Theresa May to choose any future relationship with the EU that she wanted?

Or should there be some sort of process for ascertaining the actual will of the British people when it comes to precisely the arrangement they want to get? (Bearing in mind that what the UK gets depends largely on what the EU is prepared to give).

Motheroffourdragons · 09/02/2017 13:15

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This has been deleted by MNHQ to protect the privacy of the user.

CeciledeVolanges · 09/02/2017 13:22

The really sad thing Badders is that I think a majority of voters and of MPs agree with you on that.

HashiAsLarry · 09/02/2017 13:23

The moderate brexiteers aren't too fussed at the speed of triggering article 50. Those who have been brave enough to put their heads above the parapet at least. They're not scared of a full on proper analysis before the vote. Why would they be? If their belief were correct it'll be shown. I know precisely why TM is worried, she didn't think this would work anyway.

Badders123 · 09/02/2017 13:25

What a shame they don't vote with their conscience Cecile!
Mimsy bastard quisling fucks
😡

GloriaGaynor · 09/02/2017 13:25

Farage may not have influenced you but you voted for his campaign all the same.

If you're paying attention, he should have influenced you to scrutinise closely what you were actually voting for.

GloriaGaynor · 09/02/2017 13:26

Oh I was a page behind, that was to Cory.

SemiPermanent · 09/02/2017 13:26

*In my case, I want the House of Lords to consider carefully the options available to us. I want them to pay particular attention to the possible consequences to the UK's economy and society of:

  • leaving the single market and customs union
  • changing the EU principle of free movement (this with particular thought to the devolved administrations, Northern Ireland most of all)

I want the Lords to use THEIR wisdom and their freedom from having to worry about electability to scrutinise all aspects of the Brexit proposal so that we can exit the EU in the best (I mean by that least damaging) way.*

Might be worth pointing out again that the bill currently going through is about triggering article 50, nothing more, nothing less.

Single market, customs union, free movement & all other aspects of Brexit will be scrutinised & addressed democratically by both houses during the course of the Brexit process.

Peregrina · 09/02/2017 13:27

It is evident on this thread that many of you would actually like to overturn a democratic majority vote, supported by the HoC....because you, in your esteemed wisdom do not 'think*' it is, in your view, correct.

Indeed yes. I would remind you that 96% of Germans in the 1930s voted in a Referendum to withdraw from the League of Nations. This did not make it the right decision. If Parliament can start to put forward reasons for why they think leaving is a good idea then I would be prepared to change my stance. As it is, I haven't yet heard any reasons. I have heard a lot of wishful thinking. I haven't seen any factual work done.

I don't have a problem with my stance either - because we purport to be a Parliamentary Democracy and I expect the Parliamentarians to do their duty, and not just bow down populism.

Badders123 · 09/02/2017 13:28

Semi...not according to TM!!

Badders123 · 09/02/2017 13:28

It would certainly give me pause to vote for ANYTHING supported by the far right
But that's just me......

Motheroffourdragons · 09/02/2017 13:29

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This has been deleted by MNHQ to protect the privacy of the user.

Badders123 · 09/02/2017 13:33

I seem to remember she has stated we are leaving the single market?

Peregrina · 09/02/2017 13:34

Single market, customs union, free movement & all other aspects of Brexit will be scrutinised & addressed democratically by both houses during the course of the Brexit process.

I wish I could believe you, but nothing I have seen of the way Theresa May operates leads me to think that is the case. Like the 50,000 students she had thrown out when Home Secretary - throw them out first, and then let someone take her to court to find out that her action was illegal.

RufusTheSpartacusReindeer · 09/02/2017 13:35

badders

Mimsy bastard quisling fucks

Oooh i like it...very posh

boredofbrexit · 09/02/2017 13:35

Again, do you all really think the Government, with all their MPs and members and civil servants have just said 'Take it away Theresa, you're on'?

I suggest otherwise, that it is you (collectively) who are so out of touch with the populace - and reality in fact.

I think though its just a Westminsterenders thing.

Peregrina · 09/02/2017 13:44

I suggest otherwise, that it is you (collectively) who are so out of touch with the populace - and reality in fact.

I suggest you are wrong, and that the vast majority of the populace don't give a shiny shit. The vote was last year, they think we've left the EU. What's happening on Strictly Come Dancing or Big Brother is the most vital thing happening in their lives.

Badders123 · 09/02/2017 13:45

Rufus - not really - just channeling Malcolm tucker! 😀

boredofbrexit · 09/02/2017 13:54

Shame on you Peregrina.

boredofbrexit · 09/02/2017 13:58

Bloody hell. Letwin has just called for a debate on abolition of Lords. No further news.

Peregrina · 09/02/2017 13:58

Shame on me? Why because I haven't bought into the mantra that all opposition is treason, or that most people couldn't care less?

But if you think shame on me. Good.

RufusTheSpartacusReindeer · 09/02/2017 14:01

Oh i love malcolm tucker

But you are quoting jamie mcdonald Grin

I love him as well

RedAndYellowStripe · 09/02/2017 14:02

Ah si now Brexit IS also about changing the whose constitution of the UK.
Because?? Is TM worried that the Lords wouldn't be dong as they are told?

I like the Lords. They were the only ones to stop DC when he wanted to introduce rules on benefits so strict that it would have a disproportionate negative effect on the lower income/disabled and so on.

Peregrina · 09/02/2017 14:02

I wish these Tories would make up their minds. One moment they want to pack out the Lords with their own placemen. The next they want to abolish them. I know, let's have a Referendum on the issue. That's the way we do it now. If it's 10 million Keep the Lords, and 10 million and 1 that we don't, the get abolished. The rest can't be arsed to vote, hence the numbers not adding up. That is democracy.

RufusTheSpartacusReindeer · 09/02/2017 14:02

Letwin?

Remind me who letwin is please

Does he matter?

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