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Brexit

Westministenders: Boris is reminded of the Munich Post.

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 07/02/2017 11:36

The Munich Post was the 1930s German Newspaper that refused to normalise. It refused to bow to the threats and intimidation of the Nazi State. It was to eventually closed but it defended the truth to the bitter end.

With Trump’s systematic attacks on the Press and Judiciary we should take heed. We must stand up for our journalists who seek to serve the public rather than serve their masters and only chase profit.

We must ask why, right wing extremists when they make attacks are too frequently labelled simply as lone wolfs who exist within a vacuum, when it is widely accepted by intelligence services that Muslim extremists are often the products of online radicalisation and any element of mental history is totally irrelevant because of their religion.

The PM hiring advertising agents to try and deal with a problem of increasing racial tensions rather than talking to the newspaper executives who she has close relationships with, is a deliberate missing of the point.

It is an abdication of responsibility and is wilfully ignorant.

It is about time we addressed the hole of hatred in our society that exists properly. From all angles and approaches, from all parts of our society. The blind spot in failing to acknowledge how the media’s role in this only serves to fuel the divisions. It has become normalised. Powerful lobbying groups like the Freedom Association continue to deny that populism has contributed to a rise in hate crime pointing to a dislike for how incidents are recorded. Their influence in Westminster is too apparent.

Some of the comments made in the houses of commons and to the media by Tory MPs have been worryingly close to comments made by Trump and his associates. They have been worryingly close to online trolls. They have been laced with too many ‘alternative facts’ and full of exaggerated language about immigrants. Language, its use and context are important and powerful.

These are elected officials with a social responsibility. Instead they are continue to stir things. We no longer need Farage and worry about UKIP. We have a whole bunch of them in the HoC and a quick trawl though Hansard reveals them in all their glory. To a privileged white man they are Trump apologists. During the debate over Trump’s visit to the UK, one even thought it appropriate to woof at a female MP. In 2017.

We might be very British in the way our alternative facts are being expressed but the same threats are very much present within British politics as they are currently in US politics. We might not have anyone quite as brash and brazen as Trump (with the possible exception of Farage), but this makes it more not less dangerous. People like IDS and Johnson add respectably to the thin veneer of hatred and xenophobia.

A50 is likely to pass the commons, without amendment as things stand. (I think we need to watch the Lords with interest) We are perhaps likely to enter a period where things might quieten down in the UK for a time. We must be vigilant and not accept normalisation and continue to make noise about how we feel about the future of this country or we will be dominated by the agenda of these individuals who have little respect for the interests of anyone who is not part of their boys club.

Theresa May may not be one of them, but like Trump she craves their approval and does share many of their values. She is happy to pander to them, and them to her as she makes their toxicity somehow more acceptable.

What women do next is crucial. Do we want to accept this vision of the future? Now is not the time to fall silence and accept that things are equal now. We know the reality. And it affects all of us, regardless of how we voted on 23rd June.

OP posts:
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SameProcedureAsEveryYear · 09/02/2017 07:49

Sorry, now the link that actually works ;)

br24.de/nachrichten/Deutschland%20%26%20Welt/quer-sagt-bavaria-second

RedAndYellowStripe · 09/02/2017 07:51

I think TM has handled her boat very well TBH.
Two court rulings have distracted people from even starting to discuss what was the meaning of Brexit whist she carried banging in the will of people so much so that MP now don't even dare voting against a bill that is nothing more than a blank cheque. Even when their own constituents were against Brexit (so said MPs have in effect being voting against the will of their own constituency...). Even when they were completely against it.
No need for a coup. A very nice bit of propaganda has been enough to put everyone in line.
You couldn't be more apathetic than that TBH, labour or conservative :(

Now watch her carrying on her own agenda and talking about the will of people whilst still still ignoring said will of people by ignoring MPs and the Lords.

Bearbehind · 09/02/2017 07:55

Just when you think Corbyn can't get any worse he sinks to new depths.

How can anyone be satisfied with him as leader of the opposition?

RedAndYellowStripe · 09/02/2017 07:56

As for someone happy to stop this non sense and actually stick their head over the parapet.
The has been one, Gina Miller who has been fighting tooth and nails for the democratic process to e followed.
Look at what she got for it: death threats and the need of 24h protection, restricted freedom to go where she wants etc...
It seems that none of our politicians have enough guts to do that.

RufusTheSpartacusReindeer · 09/02/2017 08:02

Agree with elements

i dont trust the vast majority of these politicians as far as i can spit them now

You should vote leave because you believe we should leave or because your constituents think its a good idea Hmm

I dont have the words Shock

In real life i do....it still involves the words fuck, cunt and wanker but they are dotted round more eloquent words...not my entire fucking sentance (except when talking to the children and boy do i struggle then!!! I sound like someone with a broken mic)

We now have a parliament full of brown nosing, self preservationists!!!! All sorts of things will be be put through or reversed and those nodding dogs in the manger will nod it through

I reckon voting remain will be like woodstock in a few years ...every fucker will have done it

Just a quick note for those hard of comprehension

I THINK WE SHOULD LEAVE AS WE WILL LOOK FUCKING STUPID IF WE DONT. I AM NOT A FUCKING LEFTIE....I USUALLY VOTE FUCKING TORY BUT I AGREE THAT YOU CANT TELL THE FUCKING DIFFERENCE NOW. I HOPE THIS ALL GOES WELL AND ITS A SUCCESSFUL BREXIT...I THINK WHOEVER CAME UP WITH THE WORDS BREXIT AND REMOANER SHOULD BE SHOT

prettybird · 09/02/2017 08:03

"The real fight starts now...." Hmm

It's almost as if he doesn't understand that the job of the Leader of the Opposition was to oppose during the debates and votes in Parliament not after the vote Confused

Badders123 · 09/02/2017 08:11

So...
Let's get this right
The 48% don't matter?
Only the will of the 52%?
And if we disagree with anything Teresa the appeaser and her minions try to do we are "traitors" and "betraying our country"?
That's the gist, yes?
And if the HoL block brexit they will be "abolished"?
Wow
Just...wow
Fascist state here we come......

RufusTheSpartacusReindeer · 09/02/2017 08:11

badders

Yep you got it

CeciledeVolanges · 09/02/2017 08:18

Just listening to Westminster Hour (R4) and one of the guests speculated that the Home Office's (not Cameron's) crude immigration cap was a mistake and possibly led to the country voting Leave, thus making her the first PM whose own mistake her got her into office.

Badders123 · 09/02/2017 08:19

•starts letter writing campaign to all members of HoL•

BigChocFrenzy · 09/02/2017 08:19

So, it really is nationism.
Brexiters waved the flag; now everyone switch off their brains and fall into line behind the flag

The people (52%) of them have spoken and those who disagree (48%) are just a business or liberal elite who are traitors and should shut up
Is that really the opinion of most Leavers too ?

Democracy means stfu between referenda every 40 years ?
Well, those who wanted out have been bitching & campaigning ever since 1975 after 67% voted to join
So those who want to rejoin can spend the next 40 years if need be campaigning to do so
We can keep protesting & objecting the whole time

It was the rightwing political elite and ruthless oligarchs who created the win, to loot a low wage tax haven with low regulation, to privatise the nhs and roll back the welfare state.
"Taking back control "is just handing over control to a social darwinist elite to loot.

Wealthy business people and politicians Oligarchs like Arron Banks have used highly sophisticated Cambridge Analytica with their psychometrics to narrowly win a vote.
Media barons like Murdoch have joined their superwealthy mates

Leavers should look at who their allies are
When the far right and the far left are on your side - same as they were in the 1975 ref - then consider carefully why

RufusTheSpartacusReindeer · 09/02/2017 08:20

And its the traitors and betraying the country thats making me livid

So when i voted tory years ago and Blair got it that made me a traitor and betraying the country did it?

And vice versa...have i got that right

Cos i thought that meant it was a democracy, ds1 may fail his A level if its changed and no one has told him

RufusTheSpartacusReindeer · 09/02/2017 08:22

Every leave voter i know thinks Trump is a A ok

Every remain voter i know thinks the opposite

Peregrina · 09/02/2017 08:23

Or if the HoC had said, 'You want £350 million a week, for the NHS, here's our plant to achieve this.' Not, 'the will of the people means we are too supine to do our jobs.' Excepting Ken Clarke, Bercow, and a special mention to the ex-MP Stephen Phillips, who had the guts to say that this wasn't his party any more and stand down.

RedAndYellowStripe · 09/02/2017 08:23

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/feb/08/the-guardian-view-on-parliament-and-brexit-mps-fail-their-first-test
This explains much better how I feel about it.

RedAndYellowStripe · 09/02/2017 08:30

When a leopard shows your its spots, believe him.

TM did show her spots right at the start when she went in wanting using the powers of Henry VIII to do as she pleases.
Turns out she doesn't even need to use it because she can also manage to convince everyone that a dictatorship cannot be opposed.
And then I'm sure she will,still tell us 'it's the will of the 52% of people'

Yep by voting Brexit people also wanted to a full change of the way the country is run, its legal, executive, parliamentary etc.. powers all rehashed. Let's just forget they have served us very well for hundred of years even if it doesn't work for her

RedAndYellowStripe · 09/02/2017 08:31

And then some people will still bang out about how DT is an awful person who doesn't follow the law.
But somehow TM is ok because she does.
She just has been a better at hiding her intent and give it the right sort of coating.

As far as I know, there is no difference TBH and I suppose that's why they get on so well together

CeciledeVolanges · 09/02/2017 08:33

A Henry VIII power is a statutory power given to the executive/member of the government allowing them to amend Parliamentary legislation directly, I.e. circumvent parliamentary procedure.

There will still be a lot of them in the Great Repeal Bill, they will be necessary as the civil service goes through and reviews roughly 40% of domestic legislation.

And if you don't think this is correct, please correct me and look it up, but I'm on firmer ground here than with treason.

CeciledeVolanges · 09/02/2017 08:34

Badders can I join in?

TheElementsSong · 09/02/2017 08:37

You've got it Badders although you'll no doubt be castigated for "hysteria" for using the F-word "fascist".

lalalonglegs · 09/02/2017 08:38

I don't have the energy for letter-writing at the moment. I might have the energy to knock a few heads together (not literally before leavers start accusing remainers of mindless violence).

Peregrina · 09/02/2017 08:41

Yep by voting Brexit people also wanted to a full change of the way the country is run, its legal, executive, parliamentary etc.. powers all rehashed. Let's just forget they have served us very well for hundred of years even

Perhaps they did, but a Referendum could only crudely express this. So Theresa May decided that it was her way or nothing. The sooner she fails and goes down in history as one of the big failures the better IMO.

Corcory · 09/02/2017 08:59

I don't see why so many of you are surprised and cross by the vote in the HOC last night.
Parliament agreed to abide by the result of the referendum when they first voted for the referendum and that is what they have done. Knowing this TM wanted to use the royal prerogative, but as it is we have had MPs have their say and put their views across as stated by the court and this is the end result. Did any of you really think you could stop Brexit in this way? Be honest you are just enjoying being outraged!
And Rufus - all the leavers I know can't stand Trump.

Peregrina · 09/02/2017 09:03

Be honest you are just enjoying being outraged!

By all means think like that, but if we end up with fascism in this country and it affects you, just remember that some of us were outraged and did try to stop it.

Tanith · 09/02/2017 09:04

You really do need to write to the Lords.

This is not the first time they have been threatened by Government wanting to push legislation through and they don't take kindly to bullies trying to stop them doing their job.

Write to them - they are a whole lot more receptive to public opinion than the Commons precisely because they don't have to worry about retaining their seats in an election. Their job is to go through bills with a fine toothed comb, present objections and raise concerns. They can - and will, if necessary - send bills back to the Commons to be reworked.

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