Westministenders: Boris and his friends hand in their homework to be marked.

[RedToothBrush]

The last week has been depressing for a lot of people.

Even if you are happy about the vote in the Commons, there is a worrying lack of backbone in MPs of all shades.

Then there’s what is going on in the USA which I’m going to quietly ignore in this post except to say that cosying up to Trump still could backfire on all who do for numerous reasons.

It seems like its all over in someways, but there is still plenty going on.

The A50 Bill has only passed stage one. The Government’s deliberate publishing of the White Paper after the vote has left a lot of people with egg all over their face.

Plus its just crap. Actually its not crap. It’s a dog dinner of farcical proportions with no content, faulty data and incorrect details that an A-Level Student did the night before their assignment was due, masquerading as an official government document.

Now its amendment time, which is the serious bit. For an amendment to make it, it will need cross party support. After the government failed to produce a White Paper worth the paper it was written on, and insulted the intelligence of the House of Commons, that could get interesting.

For starters the White Paper says that EU citizens are one of our best bargaining chips. Trouble is a lot of Tory and Labour MPs don’t agree.

In short there is a fair old chance of a government defeat next week at some point. The government don’t want any. Especially not this early. I really think it will be very difficult for the government to provide the assurance MPs will want, even if they crack the whip. They have lost the trust of too many. In voting for the first vote, many MPs will feel they have shown their intent to support leaving and now will get busy on trying to hammer down the details.

Highlights include of the White Paper include the idea that we will still be subject to the ECJ except we won’t. This is ridiculous. We will be subject to ECJ rulings but not be subject to ECJ rulings directly. Eh? What? (Not that we didn’t see this coming). There’s Euroatom and the government doing an impression of Homer Simpson. With a by-election in Copeland on the cards. That story has some time to keep running. As Steve Peers points out, the Leprechauns are going to sort out Northern Ireland for us which is a great political strategy to employ.

Its full of lots of other utter bollocks but those particular points are the ones that are potentially the most problematic for the government. If you don’t think the White Paper screams we are going to get eaten alive by the EU and Trump, you need to get off the hallucinogenics pronto.

If that isn’t awe inspiring enough we also have:

The wonderful mental image of Paul Nuttall kipping on a mattress in a house in Stoke disparately pretending to be a Stokie, nervously hoping that letterbox rattling in the wind isn’t C4 letterbox again and that the coppers don’t pay him a visit in the near future. I confess that whilst my imagination has been kept busy with this, I am disappointed in the lack of video clips of him munching on an Oatcake in a Stoke City shirt, sitting on an Armitage Shanks throne, turning his plate over whilst listening to Robbie Williams and with a Titanic by his side. All at the same time. I think he’s missed a few tricks.

AND

Diane Abbott doing quite possibly even more damage to Labour than them merely rolling over and dying over a50 by pulling a sickie. Her ‘Brexit Flu’ damages the party’s image and Corbyn himself even more. If that’s even possible. Some Labour MPs have demanded an apology.

Labour is starting to look like it’s a ship with rats fleeing this week. MPs have defied a three line whip and quite the Shadow Cabinet (Again). Rumours are that over 7000 members have left. A councillor has defected to the Lib Dems. There was a council by election in Rotherham where Lab lost a seat to the LDs in an area where there has never been as many people vote LD. Nor were there as many remain voters as LD voters. The Parliamentary vote for Unite’s new leader has unsurprisingly selected the anti-Corbyn candidate Gerald Coyne over Len McCluskey. The bookies have dropped the odds on Corbyn leaving Labour before a GE from 6/1 to 2/1 overnight. Oh and Red Ed is being rumoured to be returning to the front bench…

And what about the people?

Lico does this damage Macron, is this a shoe in for le Pen if opposition are divided?« Faites en bon usage » for what? Is this another personal snit? Excuse the daft questions!

Hester, I didn't think you were deliberately being disingenuous tbh.

Had they followed his well thought out outline (he's been working toward this for years) then I honestly don't think the whole thing would have been as divisive as it has.

Cameron's arrogance has a lot to answer for, and the collective arrogance of all the MPs that voted through the crappily thought out referendum as it was presented.

The politicians spectacularly misjudged the deep feelings of the electorate & presumed to take the electorate for granted in the same way that they've been doing for years now.
Their arrogance & their out of touch-ness is what has led to where we are now.

I was always set to vote Leave & am obviously pleased at the outcome of the ref, but I do believe that it was executed very, very badly & the fault of the current shambles lies squarely at the feet of politicians from all parties.
That is why I get pissed off beyond belief when Remain voters turn their anger & outrage on the Leave voters - people voted, that's all, it was a once in a lifetime opportunity to vote to leave and they took it.
The anger should not be toward 'fuckwit, xenophobe, racist Leave voters', but toward the politicians.

What about asking the people what they think? Semi and Jamie and Bored?

But she heroically slapped one together in the middle of the night to get it released asap

The fact that you find it acceptable it came to that after more than 7 months is testament to the complete lack of expectation on the part of Leavers.

TM has an easy job appeaseing most of the Leavers because they don't seem to have any expectations other than blue passports.

There's a whole world of difference between having a good starting point for negotiations and having a plan You mean you announce your starting point and keep the rest of the plan to yourself. Yip that is a good plan TM has.

So we jump of a cliff. If we are lucky we don't break our necks Plenty of countries trade with the EU on WTO rules, I dont see any of them at the bottom of a cliff with broken necks. Its more like an escape room, we are breaking out of the door after 2 years one way or another. So either the EU gives us a deal on the key, or we break the door down.

Could you imagine the carnage if all agencies planned like this?

Imagine if TfL planned Crossrail out as:
-Reduce burden on zone 1
-Run some trains through London without hitting terminal points
-Increase capacity
-Trains to run by July

Plenty of countries trade with the EU on WTO rules, I dont see any of them at the bottom of a cliff with broken necks

Ask yourself just how long they took to negotiate those deals?

Don't tell anyone your negotiation strategy, that's fine. Still not a plan though, just a strategy.

Let's hope Jamie doesn't expect the same standards when ill.
I need an op.
Where's the hospital? Not built yet, but it would be a good idea to have one.
Doctors, nurses? Not trained yet, still at primary school. You will just have to wait, but it will all come good in the end, you will see.

But she heroically slapped one together in the middle of the night to get it released asap

Funny how the SNP managed to put together a White Paper well before the Independence Referendum so that the electorate could read it and make a more informed decision.

Plenty of countries trade with the EU on WTO rules

Oh yes, which will need to be negotiated with 160 countries.

Woman:
It means use this file wisely in order to destroy Fillon. This will ensure that Macron appears squeakily clean to the voters and making him more trustworthy than Fillon.

In short Destroy Fillon so that Macron wins.

The problem is , is that it will make Le Pen look attractive.

It is pure ENA closing ranks.

It has been rumoured that Macron is gay and is ENA's director's lover!! (Most certainly rubbish). ...

I had not realised until reading the Nick Cowen link that the accusations of "hysteria" were yet another right wing trope that has crept into the debate to shut it down. That is unless Nick Cowen is another commentator / politician reading these threads.....

woman It is quite ironic that whilst the UK is open to the world, so few Brexiteers actually have any clue of what goes on in it. Those evil Chinese values? When more than once I have seen it suggested we could be like Singapore or South Korea, economies firmly steered, and in South Korea's case held back, by those confucian values .... We are sailing into a bright new future of amazing trade deals armed with stereotypes and the bliss of ignorance...That is not hysteria, it is the cold rational voice of experience

"Plenty of countries trade with the EU on WTO rules, I dont see any of them at the bottom of a cliff with broken necks"

There is a difference between standing at the bottom of a cliff and jumping off it.

What about asking the people what they think?
We did, and they said to leave the EU. I know its not what everyone wanted but its what the people decided.

The fact that you find it acceptable it came to that after more than 7 months I dont recognize that at all. Leavers have a LOT of expectations but we are only connected by one. To LEAVE the EU. The rest we are happy to argue about via general elections. The white paper was irrelevant so I care nothing about it. That doesn't mean I dont care. All this other stuff the remainers talk about is trying to stop the one thing that is most important about leaving, ie that we actually leave.

Lico That's what I thought. Thought it would give her a shoe in, after sad events on Friday. Hollande Quel idiot ( is that right?).

Jamie So you only ask once and not on the terms of the agreement? You know what sort of political system does that?

Ah, we have another world burner.

Thanks for translating lico. My French is merde to say the least.

I think the problem with asking the people is that some would never think anything short of staying in was a good deal.

There seems to be much talk of restructuring within the EU. Whether that is bluster, who knows. Whether there is timely reform which would enable the referendum decision to be upheld, that is, to remain associated with the EU but not bound by the ECJ etc, who knows.

I keep wondering what happens if the start of negotiation is so bad that the UK walks away immediately and to hell with two years? This never seems to be discussed.

Hashi, your comparing two different things. A plan on how to implement something is not the same type of thing as a plan to negotiate something. The implementation plan comes after you have agreed a deal. Apples and Oranges.

What is 'the UK walking away', the representatives of the people, the people or the executive?

Ask yourself just how long they took to negotiate those deals?
I have and its a risk worth taking. I spent 4 years at uni earning bugger all with the hope that I would get a good job after. Well worth the 4 years.

Those representing the UK in the negotiations. As it stands there are no arrangements for anything else.

Still not a plan though, just a strategy
OK I will bite, how do you know that TM hasn't got plan?

Funny how the SNP managed to put together a White Paper well before the Independence Referendum so that the electorate could read it and make a more informed decision

Which wasn't worth the paper it was written on because it was all based on incorrect guesses. So whats the point in TM doing the same?

Ken Clarke:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/05/ken-clarke-on-brexit-ive-never-seen-anything-as-mad-or-chaotic-as-this?CMP=othb-aplnewss_d-2