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Brexit

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Westministenders: Boris and his friends hand in their homework to be marked.

990 replies

RedToothBrush · 03/02/2017 14:10

The last week has been depressing for a lot of people.

Even if you are happy about the vote in the Commons, there is a worrying lack of backbone in MPs of all shades.

Then there’s what is going on in the USA which I’m going to quietly ignore in this post except to say that cosying up to Trump still could backfire on all who do for numerous reasons.

It seems like its all over in someways, but there is still plenty going on.

The A50 Bill has only passed stage one. The Government’s deliberate publishing of the White Paper after the vote has left a lot of people with egg all over their face.

Plus its just crap. Actually its not crap. It’s a dog dinner of farcical proportions with no content, faulty data and incorrect details that an A-Level Student did the night before their assignment was due, masquerading as an official government document.

Now its amendment time, which is the serious bit. For an amendment to make it, it will need cross party support. After the government failed to produce a White Paper worth the paper it was written on, and insulted the intelligence of the House of Commons, that could get interesting.

For starters the White Paper says that EU citizens are one of our best bargaining chips. Trouble is a lot of Tory and Labour MPs don’t agree.

In short there is a fair old chance of a government defeat next week at some point. The government don’t want any. Especially not this early. I really think it will be very difficult for the government to provide the assurance MPs will want, even if they crack the whip. They have lost the trust of too many. In voting for the first vote, many MPs will feel they have shown their intent to support leaving and now will get busy on trying to hammer down the details.

Highlights include of the White Paper include the idea that we will still be subject to the ECJ except we won’t. This is ridiculous. We will be subject to ECJ rulings but not be subject to ECJ rulings directly. Eh? What? (Not that we didn’t see this coming). There’s Euroatom and the government doing an impression of Homer Simpson. With a by-election in Copeland on the cards. That story has some time to keep running. As Steve Peers points out, the Leprechauns are going to sort out Northern Ireland for us which is a great political strategy to employ.

Its full of lots of other utter bollocks but those particular points are the ones that are potentially the most problematic for the government. If you don’t think the White Paper screams we are going to get eaten alive by the EU and Trump, you need to get off the hallucinogenics pronto.

If that isn’t awe inspiring enough we also have:

The wonderful mental image of Paul Nuttall kipping on a mattress in a house in Stoke disparately pretending to be a Stokie, nervously hoping that letterbox rattling in the wind isn’t C4 letterbox again and that the coppers don’t pay him a visit in the near future. I confess that whilst my imagination has been kept busy with this, I am disappointed in the lack of video clips of him munching on an Oatcake in a Stoke City shirt, sitting on an Armitage Shanks throne, turning his plate over whilst listening to Robbie Williams and with a Titanic by his side. All at the same time. I think he’s missed a few tricks.

AND

Diane Abbott doing quite possibly even more damage to Labour than them merely rolling over and dying over a50 by pulling a sickie. Her ‘Brexit Flu’ damages the party’s image and Corbyn himself even more. If that’s even possible. Some Labour MPs have demanded an apology.

Labour is starting to look like it’s a ship with rats fleeing this week. MPs have defied a three line whip and quite the Shadow Cabinet (Again). Rumours are that over 7000 members have left. A councillor has defected to the Lib Dems. There was a council by election in Rotherham where Lab lost a seat to the LDs in an area where there has never been as many people vote LD. Nor were there as many remain voters as LD voters. The Parliamentary vote for Unite’s new leader has unsurprisingly selected the anti-Corbyn candidate Gerald Coyne over Len McCluskey. The bookies have dropped the odds on Corbyn leaving Labour before a GE from 6/1 to 2/1 overnight. Oh and Red Ed is being rumoured to be returning to the front bench…

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
WrongTrouser · 04/02/2017 19:18

Thanks for the explanation BigChoc

I hope and definitely expect that the Uk and EU will agree each others expats can stay, with the same rights for each nationality

I agree with this.

BigChocFrenzy · 04/02/2017 19:23

Once A50 has actually been formally invoked, the EU is more likely to respond
Until then it is all hypothetical and there are rather a lot of other worrying things going on in the world

woman12345 · 04/02/2017 19:25

The dad of the alleged attacker is very convincing about his son's innocence here. No witnesses.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-38868971

HashiAsLarry · 04/02/2017 19:25

Thanks woman that helps a lot

But yes kaija. If you told me that 18months ago I'd probably have laughed in your face Confused

woman12345 · 04/02/2017 19:25

At the Louvre incident yesterday.

Badders123 · 04/02/2017 19:31

So who do we predict will provide the Geoffrey Howe moment in the HoC for Teresa the appeaser?

SemiPermanent · 04/02/2017 19:35

a gesture of goodwill from this government which is in fact what the majority of MPs and a few of "the people" want as well

'A few of the people' equates to app 80% according to the YouGov poll that Wrong linked to.

It would really help a lot if you could start to recognise that just because someone voted to Leave the EU, it does not mean they want EU citizens living here to feel scared or unsettled re their continued right to remain here.

As with numerous other Leave voters, I would like to see the UK govt just take the leap and guarantee their rights here; however, the govt has decided that they will not risk leaving UK citizens high & dry if the EU then choose not to reciprocate.

I think that what BigChoc suggested is the right thing to do:
May - after invoking the A50 - should say that the Uk will allow resident E27 expats to stay provided the EU agrees the same for UK expats

CeciledeVolanges · 04/02/2017 19:35

True BigChoc. But this whole debacle is an unnecessary distraction from things going on round the world, the refugee crisis, Trump, the Middle East, food security, flood protection, the NHS...

NotDavidTennant · 04/02/2017 19:39

The dad of the alleged attacker is very convincing about his son's innocence here. No witnesses.

What's your source for no witnesses? The attack occurred in a busy area and media outlets are reporting the presence of witnesses.

I'm not sure what you find 'very convincing' either, when the article only directly quotes five words of the father in total.

woman12345 · 04/02/2017 19:47

NotDavidTennant
The BBC news film of the father's testimony is convincing.
Have you got any eye witness testimonies?
All I have found saw nothing as they were ushered into windowless safe rooms.

BigChocFrenzy · 04/02/2017 20:06

Trump lashes out at the ‘so-called judge’ who rebuked his travel ban

Trump doesn't respect judges, even Republican ones

He tweeted “The opinion of this so-called judge, which essentially takes law-enforcement away from our country, is ridiculous and will be overturned!”

"The rebuke came hours after U.S. District Court Judge James Robart, an appointee of President George W. Bush, ruled in favor of the attorneys general of Washington state and Minnesota on a lawsuit they brought seeking to overturn the travel ban."

http://www.politico.eu/article/trump-lashes-out-at-the-so-called-judge-who-rebuked-his-travel-ban/

(Big Choc) request:
Help, someone please - turn off the wifi at the White House !

twofingerstoEverything · 04/02/2017 20:08

Turkey suffered the largest decline in freedoms among 195 countries over the past year, an annual report published by the Washington-based Freedom House showed on Jan 31

and which despot was Theresa the Appeaser's next stop after retrieving her nose from Trump's arse?

BigChocFrenzy · 04/02/2017 20:09

Yes, I know it's old, but I missed it at the time and I'm shocked

BigChocFrenzy · 04/02/2017 20:12

White House press secretary Sean Spicer:

“At the earliest possible time, the Department of Justice intends to file an emergency stay of this outrageous order and defend the executive order of the President, which we believe is lawful and appropriate,”

Spicer’s statement was reissued about 10 minutes later to remove the word “outrageous.”

Badders123 · 04/02/2017 20:13

No I've who follows what erdogans been up to will be surprised by that
It's all over my twitter timeline

Badders123 · 04/02/2017 20:16

"No one who follows"

twofingerstoEverything · 04/02/2017 20:22

Ringfence the NHS from trade deals

Hopefully leavers and remainers will both support this. The link to the petition has been posted before, but worth sharing again, I think.

CeciledeVolanges · 04/02/2017 21:02

Lord Bingham: "There are countries in the world where all judicial decisions find favour with the powers that be, but they are probably not places where any of us would wish to live."

Mistigri · 04/02/2017 21:05

Because the EU will not reciprocate.

This is such utter brainless tosh, it makes me furious.

It's not up to the EU to assure the right of UK citizens living in EU countries -the UK is leaving the EU, and as a consequence we are losing our EU citizenship. Our (and I am one of them) right to remain in our homes will cease to be determined by EU law on brexit day, and will be determined by the national immigration law of the countries in which we have settled.

Unless there is a broad EU-UK agreement which covers immigration, and I think this is very unlikely simply because of the timescale involved and because of the very different motivations of the EU27 (Poland has far more to lose than, say, Portugal - but the eventual deal will need agreement from all member states) all Britons living in EU countries will need to consider the basis on which they will be allowed to remain.

woman12345 · 04/02/2017 21:08

true Cecile

^Britons must be offered ‘associate EU citizenship’ whatever the outcome of May’s Brexit negotiations, says MEP
Retaining partial membership of the EU would allow UK nationals to travel and work freely inside the bloc
Britons could be offered “associate citizenship” of the European Union after Brexit even if Theresa May blocks the plan, the MEP who drafted the proposal has said.
“Associate citizenship” remains a “realistic” ambition and Brussels should make it available to UK nationals even if the British Government vetoes the plan during negotiations, Charles Goerens said^.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-latest-news-theresa-may-european-union-associate-citizenship-eu-charles-goerens-a7562416.html

It's the indie so it's that sort of story, but still.....
Britain will end up with a big migration problem Grin

woman12345 · 04/02/2017 21:14

This is such utter brainless tosh, it makes me furious Grin

StripeyMonkey1 · 04/02/2017 21:16

Actually the Associate Citizenship idea means that the EU is potentially looking to be more generous than the UK. The EU could effectively offer to allow both current UK immigrants to stay and to permit future UK immigration from those who take us Associate Citizenship.

The UK is not suggesting anything close to that level of generosity. I think we could improve our rhetoric at the very least and stop referring to EU citizens living here as "bargaining chips".

woman12345 · 04/02/2017 21:19

Geography graduate pimps country:

^Copy of article 50 bill 'signed by PM' to be auctioned at Tory dinner
The Guardian has seen emails indicating document apparently signed by Theresa May is to go under the hammer^

www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/04/article-50-bill-autographed-by-pm-to-be-auctioned-at-tory-dinner

HashiAsLarry · 04/02/2017 22:39

I quite like the theory. You don't want us to stay at your house? That's cool, you can still come to ours. Responding with love.