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Westministenders: Boris and his friends hand in their homework to be marked.

990 replies

RedToothBrush · 03/02/2017 14:10

The last week has been depressing for a lot of people.

Even if you are happy about the vote in the Commons, there is a worrying lack of backbone in MPs of all shades.

Then there’s what is going on in the USA which I’m going to quietly ignore in this post except to say that cosying up to Trump still could backfire on all who do for numerous reasons.

It seems like its all over in someways, but there is still plenty going on.

The A50 Bill has only passed stage one. The Government’s deliberate publishing of the White Paper after the vote has left a lot of people with egg all over their face.

Plus its just crap. Actually its not crap. It’s a dog dinner of farcical proportions with no content, faulty data and incorrect details that an A-Level Student did the night before their assignment was due, masquerading as an official government document.

Now its amendment time, which is the serious bit. For an amendment to make it, it will need cross party support. After the government failed to produce a White Paper worth the paper it was written on, and insulted the intelligence of the House of Commons, that could get interesting.

For starters the White Paper says that EU citizens are one of our best bargaining chips. Trouble is a lot of Tory and Labour MPs don’t agree.

In short there is a fair old chance of a government defeat next week at some point. The government don’t want any. Especially not this early. I really think it will be very difficult for the government to provide the assurance MPs will want, even if they crack the whip. They have lost the trust of too many. In voting for the first vote, many MPs will feel they have shown their intent to support leaving and now will get busy on trying to hammer down the details.

Highlights include of the White Paper include the idea that we will still be subject to the ECJ except we won’t. This is ridiculous. We will be subject to ECJ rulings but not be subject to ECJ rulings directly. Eh? What? (Not that we didn’t see this coming). There’s Euroatom and the government doing an impression of Homer Simpson. With a by-election in Copeland on the cards. That story has some time to keep running. As Steve Peers points out, the Leprechauns are going to sort out Northern Ireland for us which is a great political strategy to employ.

Its full of lots of other utter bollocks but those particular points are the ones that are potentially the most problematic for the government. If you don’t think the White Paper screams we are going to get eaten alive by the EU and Trump, you need to get off the hallucinogenics pronto.

If that isn’t awe inspiring enough we also have:

The wonderful mental image of Paul Nuttall kipping on a mattress in a house in Stoke disparately pretending to be a Stokie, nervously hoping that letterbox rattling in the wind isn’t C4 letterbox again and that the coppers don’t pay him a visit in the near future. I confess that whilst my imagination has been kept busy with this, I am disappointed in the lack of video clips of him munching on an Oatcake in a Stoke City shirt, sitting on an Armitage Shanks throne, turning his plate over whilst listening to Robbie Williams and with a Titanic by his side. All at the same time. I think he’s missed a few tricks.

AND

Diane Abbott doing quite possibly even more damage to Labour than them merely rolling over and dying over a50 by pulling a sickie. Her ‘Brexit Flu’ damages the party’s image and Corbyn himself even more. If that’s even possible. Some Labour MPs have demanded an apology.

Labour is starting to look like it’s a ship with rats fleeing this week. MPs have defied a three line whip and quite the Shadow Cabinet (Again). Rumours are that over 7000 members have left. A councillor has defected to the Lib Dems. There was a council by election in Rotherham where Lab lost a seat to the LDs in an area where there has never been as many people vote LD. Nor were there as many remain voters as LD voters. The Parliamentary vote for Unite’s new leader has unsurprisingly selected the anti-Corbyn candidate Gerald Coyne over Len McCluskey. The bookies have dropped the odds on Corbyn leaving Labour before a GE from 6/1 to 2/1 overnight. Oh and Red Ed is being rumoured to be returning to the front bench…

OP posts:
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HashiAsLarry · 04/02/2017 22:49

Oh dear indeed.

And far too many ways to go with that. Though what strikes me is that if he is being truthful and just helping her out then I hope he ensures she leaves after the requisite amount of time as she can't appear to self support.

Peregrina · 04/02/2017 22:50

Oh dear.

That's a link from the Mail. Are they falling out of love with Farage?

CeciledeVolanges · 04/02/2017 22:54

Sorry, my quote above was in relation to Trump's "so called judges". As for the auctioning of the Article 50 Bill... a lot of this seems to be about personalities. A lot of the speeches in the debate were "this proves I've been right all along." Jacob Rees-Mogg went with "The Supreme Court decision shows my father was right"

SwedishEdith · 04/02/2017 22:55

The Mail on Sunday was Remain, I seem to recall. There's been lots of rumours about Farage's, urgh, "love life" so, I guess, they've been watching for a while.

gisforGirl · 05/02/2017 00:00

I love the photos.

Especially the one with the mucky looking bins and chains, overflow bin bags and a forlorn pigeon looking for scraps. NF looks a dire sight too. Welcome to Brexit Britain Grin.

I also applaud his taste in European women.

RedToothBrush · 05/02/2017 00:23

I've been looking at the voting intentions of people for a couple of hours.

Between 13th October and 30th Jan something appears to have happened. Its subtle but its noticeable.

There are two particular groups who seem to have shifted.

The first is men who either were SNP/Plaid or Labour in 2015.
The percentage of all male voters has shifted to increase the total of the following by

3% to Don't Know
1% to UKIP
2% to Cons

The second group is women who voted Conservative in 2015 they have shifted. The percentage of all female voters has shifted to increase the total of the following by

1% Wont vote
1% SNP/Plaid
2% LDs
1% Other Parties

There's also been two notable shifts along age lines.

The first is in 65+ age group. The number intending to vote Conservative has dropped by 7%. 2% have gone to 'other parties', 3% have gone to won't vote, 2% have gone to don't know and 1% have gone to UKIP.

The other group which seems to be the one shifting most is the 18-25 year old group. There were 5% who were don't know or won't vote who now seemed to have changed their minds plus 4% have abandoned Labour. The beneficiaries are 1% to UKIP, 2% to Cons and 6% to the LDs.

There are other shifts going on, but these ones seem the biggest and most noteworthy.

5% of 2015 Labour voters are currently saying they will not vote in the next GE. Which is a huge amount on top of those who have decided to go elsewhere or don't know who to vote for.

Comparatively to men, women look more likely to vote than during the EU Ref, though intention to vote is down for both men and women.

Interesting in the context that women over all have less confidence in Brexit than men.

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RedToothBrush · 05/02/2017 00:53

We have a website for following US politics. Ideal for when you wake in the morning.

Its called:

whatthefuckjusthappenedtoday.com/

It has a summary of all Trump's Daily Clusterfucking in point by point form.

Its bloody brilliant!

www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/feb/04/donald-trump-travel-ban-constitutional-crisis
'An epic confrontation': Trump travel ban takes US to brink of crisis

“The moment Donald Trump suggests anyone disobey the federal court order then we will be in a constitutional crisis.”

Law and policy ‏*@Law*andpolicy
You Americans only have "so-called" judges.

We have openly gay, ex-Olympic fencer enemies of the people.
Keep up!

twitter.com/spencerwoodman/status/827971418713358336
Spencer Woodman ‏*@spencerwoodman*
In which Trump lawyer tells judge Robart of travel ban: "We actually don't think you're supppsed to look at whether it's rationally based"

And the judge goes "Bullshit!" (I may be paraphrasing slightly)

www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/trump-named-more-50-lawsuits-inauguration-n716191
Trump Named in More Than 50 Lawsuits Since Inauguration

He has no solicitor general, head of the office of Legal Council and his Attorney General is still to be confirmed.

mike murphy ‏*@murphymike*
"Bannon’s rising profile caught the attention of... Trump who... inquired about Bannon’s Time debut with aides." --WaPo

I hope everyone keeps talking about President Father Jack Bannon.

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mathanxiety · 05/02/2017 06:00

Wrt 'dressing like a woman' I love the photo of double amputee Iraq veteran US Senator Tammy Duckworth in her fatigues in her wheelchair..

mathanxiety · 05/02/2017 06:07

And wrt 'prisoner nations'
I am citizen of one.
Ireland managed to make arrangements wrt freedom of movement to the UK long before the EEC and even within the EEC/ EU, and also to negotiate treatment verging on preferential for Irish immigrants in the US. Plus the plum of pre screening for travel to the US in Irish airports. I suspect Ireland will continue to make its own arrangements.

What would Theresa May give for a nice big voting bloc in another country...

mathanxiety · 05/02/2017 06:21

www.irishtimes.com/news/world/us/fintan-o-toole-welcome-to-trumperica-1.2960823#.WJY8IUDYZqo.facebook
Fintan O'Toole nails it once again in the Irish Times.

What the world is struggling to come to terms with is that this is not what Trump is about at all. He is not engaged in rational politics. He is a character in a story of his own invention. And the only rules he understands are the rules of the narrative.

And he is too stupid to realise he is a puppet of Bannon's.

mathanxiety · 05/02/2017 07:10

SemiPermanent:
Why do they need to wait until A50 is invoked?
There is no good reason for this.
This could be sorted now.
It could have been sorted months ago, in fact.

You have forgotten the small detail - the UK is still a member of the EU and therefore technically nothing needs to be 'sorted out'. Once the UK signals its intention (via A50) of leaving the EU, then the sorting out can commence.

You have also forgotten that it was May who used the term bargaining chips and that her closest colleagues have shot their mouths off reiterating the phrase ever since the Referendum. The status of EU nationals in the UK is so far up in the air at this point that Harriet Harman saw fit to propose an amendment to the A50 Bill to the effect that -
“Nothing in this Act shall affect the continuation of those residence rights enjoyed by EU citizens lawfully resident in the United Kingdom on 23 June 2016, under or by virtue of Directive 2004/38/EC, after the United Kingdom’s withdrawal from the European Union.”

Politically is not the same as 'technically' however - of course it could all have been sorted out, but the party who could have done the sorting out, made the firm assurances, and put the matter behind them is the UK government. The political reason not to do that is that the government prefers to use the fate of the EU nationals as a bargaining chip.

woman12345 · 05/02/2017 07:42

'prisoner nation' Hmm How about 'detention nation'
This isn't EU but it is migration related. Woman (mother, wife, grandmother, carer for poorly husband) lived in UK for 27 years, and because she returned to care for her failing parents, she was asked to leave, and is now in a detention centre. "During a visit to the reporting centre in Middlesbrough last month, she was detained and brought by van to Dungavel House, a detention centre in Lanarkshire".
It's brutal.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-38852020?post_id=564486610411547_564487590411449#=

mathanxiety · 05/02/2017 07:58

PrawnofthePatriarchy
Thank you for your great post on the transborg that now bears down on women and girls everywhere.

woman12345 · 05/02/2017 08:25

Not to disrupt the thread, but math and prawn I get it too(transborg?) and wonder if I'm being naive. You explained what Obama had done, and it's happening by stealth here too. Isn't it the alt right hi jacking trans rights to attack feminism? Divide and rule tactics? Which are being used all over the place. I've followed in dismay as eminent academics and feminists like Greer have been prevented from speaking on campuses by this movement.
Despite all, they didn't get a look in on the Women's Marches, although ostensibly welcomed in with compassion, which I hope defeated or at least deflated their divisive bile.
But I back you on calling it out.

HesterThrale · 05/02/2017 08:37

I've been finding out about the amendments tabled for debate this week. Labour believes there's wiggle room on them. John McDonnell said on the Today programme last week that they'd start getting active in challenging certain aspects.

press.labour.org.uk/post/156404587259/labour-tables-targeted-amendments-to-article-50

Also the Lib Dems are tabling an amendment that the final deal has to be taken back to the people in a refererendum for approval:

www.libdemvoice.org/lib-dem-amendment-to-give-people-a-vote-on-final-brexit-deal-53146.html

It's worth expressing our support for this idea, so sign the agreement:

www.libdems.org.uk/give-us-our-say?recruiter_id=1056564

Some Tory MPs are also allegedly feeling mutinous:

www.google.co.uk/amp/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/04/brexit-bill-rebellion-row-erupts-eurosceptic-claims-27-tory/amp/?client=safari

I presume the whole Bill also has to go through the Lords. I wrote to well over a dozen Lords in January and had many positive responses.

I don't feel despondent yet. We can still get the best deal possible if we make our voices heard. Let's contact MPs and Lords.

Peregrina · 05/02/2017 08:50

I will believe that the Tories will rebel when I see it. So far the only one who has stuck to his principles is Ken Clarke. What about the others who felt strongly? Soubry, Morgan, Osborne?

HashiAsLarry · 05/02/2017 08:56

I think Soubry said that she feels that we should honour the vote to leave but that doesn't mean diving off a cliff and wants to make sure those who voted remain aren't ignored. Which tbf is what I'd happily take most MPs saying. As long as they also acted on it.

HesterThrale · 05/02/2017 08:57

I feel disappointment too Peregrina!

But maybe they'd feel more confident to rebel on particular amendments?

Apparently 'some are sympathetic ... for EU citizen rights to be protected and a 'meaningful' vote to be held on the final deal.'

www.google.co.uk/amp/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/04/brexit-bill-rebellion-row-erupts-eurosceptic-claims-27-tory/amp/?client=safari

CeciledeVolanges · 05/02/2017 09:09

I am going to write to some Lords (although if it doesn't go through the PM can just create hundreds of new ones and it will all be for naught). If we don't have a referendum before Article 50 is triggered it doesn't really matter what happens, honestly. The PM thinks no deal is better than a "bad deal" anyway. You all know WTO isn't a default and we have to negotiate those too?

Peregrina · 05/02/2017 09:18

You all know WTO isn't a default and we have to negotiate those too?
Yes, and if Theresa May can't get deals by stamping her foot and hectoring 27 other countries, I wonder how she will get on with 162. Some of whom have scores to settle, and will take a delight in doing so. Some of which won't really see any benefit to them and could just be bloody minded or slow because it's not a priority for them.

BigChocFrenzy · 05/02/2017 09:23

Trump may set up another financial crisis

"He signed an executive action Friday designed to significantly scale back the regulatory system"

  • restraints Obama put on the financial industry after the 2008 disaster

"Trump also will halt another of former President Barack Obama’s regulations, hated by the financial industry,
that requires advisers on retirement accounts to work in the best interests of their clients."

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-02-03/trump-to-halt-obama-fiduciary-rule-order-dodd-frank-review

BigChocFrenzy · 05/02/2017 09:28

Der Spiegel, Bloomberg, The Economist on Trump:

Peregrina · 05/02/2017 09:31

The Bloomberg one also applies to Theresa May's legislation too - the sloppier the wording the better it seems, if the White paper was anything to judge by.

prettybird · 05/02/2017 09:40

I laughed out loud when BBC Breaking News announced that the US Appeals Court had refused Trump's request that his Executive Order be immediately re-imposed.

He is finding out that even he is not above the law. He's not a special as he thinks he is Wink

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