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Brexit

Westministenders: Johnson defends his President whilst we try to defend Britain

998 replies

RedToothBrush · 31/01/2017 11:25

Theresa and Donald
Sitting in a tree
K-I-S-S-I-N-G
First come Brexit
Then comes the Ban
Then comes the
Removal of Human Rights
… Damn

(Shamelessly stolen from a protest sign)

A couple of weeks ago people were still asking why we were talking about Trump on a Brexit thread. I think the answer has made itself all together too apparent.

What is happening in the US is not going to stop. It’s not going to get any better any time soon. The situation is grave with suggestions there has been a coup. What happens next is not going to be pretty. American institutions are struggling. The rule of law has been undermined. We are not talking about a developing country. We are talking about the country which has stood for freedom and democracy.

Our leadership looks weak in the face of this. We look like we are not only appeasing but endorsing. For what? A trade deal that he could revoke in 30 days?

We have but one question. How many of our ‘British Values’ will have to be sacrifice for the special relationship?

Make no bones about this: Cosying up to Trump threatens our national security. It threatens our democracy. It ruins what little moral authority we have left. It threatens our ties with Europe who we DO still need to have a relationship even if we are outside the EU. This is not world leadership. This is appeasement. This is cowardly weak and downright desperate.

Let us also not forget ‘Good old Boris’ pretending to be Churchill and calling the EU Nazis and Hitler during the Referendum and on several occasions since. He has now had the bare faced audicity to stand in the House of Commons and call MPs out repeatedly for ‘trivalising the holocaust’ or for making comparisons with the 1930s when they saying they have been told this by survivors of the holocaust. It is SHAMEFUL. I also note how many times Johnson referred to Trump being democratically elected as if this makes all the difference and he can’t possibly be a dictator if elected.

Why do they want to use the parallel themselves and HATE it when its used for things they use? Fascists hate being pointed out as fascists.

What would happen if you put it to the public? You have a choice, The EU or Trump? What would they say. At its most basic this is what Brexit is now. You can not hide it or disguise it any longer.

Get used to this. Be prepared to protest, to keep challenging, to keep calling things as they are. Fatigue might set in, but we need to keep on. This is for the long haul.

Today the a50 Bill starts in parliament. It’s not looking good, as it looks like MPs will completely fail in their DUTY to hold the government to account and will not have the balls to add amendments to the bill.

If it passes without any, get worried. It is not just about the EU.

It never was.

OP posts:
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tiggytape · 03/02/2017 10:13

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Badders123 · 03/02/2017 10:13

Yep!!!
Exactly who I was thinking of!!

Badders123 · 03/02/2017 10:18

Tiggy...
I really disagree
There are some people who have always been eurosceptic. Fine.
But I think the majority who voted leave did so on the basis of the lies and alt right agenda of ukip and right wing tories
If you had heard some of the comments in the playground the day after the vote....
Jesus Christ Sad
"Well of course Nigel farage is a liar, but at least he's an honest liar!!"
"I don't even know what the eu is!"
"Fuck Europe"

These ^ are the people who will suffer

And I for one find that very upsetting

It will cause at least a generations worth of instability and even more inequality

Badders123 · 03/02/2017 10:19

Tiggy...it's ok to vote to be poorer if you can afford it...

missmoon · 03/02/2017 10:23

Red the impression I got from talking to people is that they thought the LD were a moderating influence on the Tories, and therefore stopped many of the worst cuts. Also lots of people mentioned specific councillors who had helped them in some way, and they thought were doing a good job locally.

SemiPermanent · 03/02/2017 10:25

You seem to think it people on benefits requires a 'solution'.

Do I Hashi?

I said this where?

missmoon · 03/02/2017 10:25

UKIP are totally discredited at the local level around here, as they have turned out to be terrible councillors...

Badders123 · 03/02/2017 10:26

I think history will judge the lib dems much more kindly than I previously thought
Their gains in by elections (with the usual caveats about it "only" being a by election!) are a real eye opener into where disenchanted labour voters are going

HashiAsLarry · 03/02/2017 10:26

Well you were the one who asked what it was when no one else was talking about it semi. But then you do love a good straw man

Badders123 · 03/02/2017 10:27

Still no reply from my mp btw 😀

Badders123 · 03/02/2017 10:27

I don't know about straw man
It's rapidly turning into whicker man 😞😡

HashiAsLarry · 03/02/2017 10:33

I always felt Cameron et al played their cards very well during the coalition time and that eventually history would be kinder to the lib dems. I've also heard people more recently saying they think the lib dems were a calming influence and not the shambles they were portrayed. It's sad because I think clegg is easier to get behind than farron but his goose is still somewhat on the charred side

Mistigri · 03/02/2017 10:33

UKIP are totally discredited at the local level around here, as they have turned out to be terrible councillors...

Same here with the NF in France. When they get power they are useless. Anyone with half a brain associated with them at local level quickly jumps ship (different at national level - where there is a gravy train to ride).

Be very interesting to see if Nuttall is allowed to stand. He's plainly broken the law, but does the law have any teeth?

NotDavidTennant · 03/02/2017 10:34

Semi-Permanent It was her agreeing with post immediately above hers, this one:

The more alt-right people I know are those who've relied or do currently rely on benefits but don't like how they're only basic levels so resent forriners for either getting them too or using the nhs etc. All money they'd prefer in their pockets.

I took that post to be in response to this one:

Redactio the party of the working class is not by definition of the left. Most of the true working class nowadays are right wingers. It's only the non working class that vote labour.
Most of us low income people are fed up of having our wages subpoenaed to subsidise people who choose the dole as a lifestyle.

Interestingly enough you chose not to be outraged by that one. Should we infer that you agree with the sentiment, or was it simply that you couldn't use it to reinforce your stereotypes about remain voters?

TuckersBadLuck · 03/02/2017 10:36

I really don't mind if Nuttall wins Stoke. It would be most entertaining to see the leader of the UKIPs standing up in the HOC and being ridiculed for his stupid lies.

HashiAsLarry · 03/02/2017 10:38

The only way ukip are likely to be discredited is is if they're taken seriously for a while. They'll show themselves up pdq

WrongTrouser · 03/02/2017 10:39

woman The people you talk about not respecting the halting in campaigning after the murder of JC (NF, EDL) are not MPs so I don't see how this leads you to the statement that MPs didn't respond in a united way.

I don't deny there are threats made to MPs. Sadly, many people face threats of violence in the course of their work (police, social workers, services). Some are killed. We still expect these people to, and they still do, carry out their duties as best they can and don't give in to threats of violence.

I think it is a huge and dangerous leap to jump from acknowledging that there have been threats to MPs to using this to undermine the credibility of their actions and specifically the A50 vote.

I know we are leaving the EU, but the country is left with an enourmous amount of division and some serious questions about our democracy and political system.

I think our democratic system (imperfect though it is) needs to be handled with care. I was pleased with the Supreme Court judgement that triggering A50 must be decided by parliament not the government. I thought this was the correct course for our democratic process. I think it is not helpful to start trying, now that the process which remainers were, rightly, demanding, is underway to start trying to undermine parliament's decisions by saying that "democracy is dead".

Peregrina · 03/02/2017 10:43

the country is left with an enourmous amount of division
You really must tell Theresa May that - she is of the belief that the divisions have healed and that 65 million people are behind her. On what she bases either of these assumptions is something which completely baffles me.

Badders123 · 03/02/2017 10:43

Wrong...I agree but we do not live in a vacuum - the events in the US should be looked to with a very real sense of fear

Badders123 · 03/02/2017 10:44

People said that about Trump hash 😞

Gumpendorf · 03/02/2017 10:47

Be very interesting to see if Nuttall is allowed to stand. He's plainly broken the law, but does the law have any teeth?

Mistigri, as nothing has been done about the possible breaches of electoral law in the 2015 election, the answer is probably not. It's made me realise that I mutter about Trump and co pushing the boundaries without repercussions (Tax Returns, foreign emoluments etc) but in UK we have done the same. Slippery slope.

Badders123 · 03/02/2017 10:48

Theresa the appeaser is deluded
Just dangerously deluded

Gumpendorf · 03/02/2017 10:52

The Rotherham Brinsworth result was fascinating. I was familiar with the area in the late 1970s and it still has a steel plant, now Tata owned from a quick google. I wonder whether that might be influencing the vote.

HashiAsLarry · 03/02/2017 10:55

True badders. Some bright spark has probably said it about other dodgy arsed parties/politicians too Blush

woman12345 · 03/02/2017 10:55

Badders it sounds like the actual contributions you make to society and your family are more valuable than economic returns.
Agree with Cecile Flowers to you and DM