Westministenders: Johnson defends his President whilst we try to defend Britain

[RedToothBrush]

Theresa and Donald
Sitting in a tree
K-I-S-S-I-N-G
First come Brexit
Then comes the Ban
Then comes the
Removal of Human Rights
… Damn

(Shamelessly stolen from a protest sign)

A couple of weeks ago people were still asking why we were talking about Trump on a Brexit thread. I think the answer has made itself all together too apparent.

What is happening in the US is not going to stop. It’s not going to get any better any time soon. The situation is grave with suggestions there has been a coup. What happens next is not going to be pretty. American institutions are struggling. The rule of law has been undermined. We are not talking about a developing country. We are talking about the country which has stood for freedom and democracy.

Our leadership looks weak in the face of this. We look like we are not only appeasing but endorsing. For what? A trade deal that he could revoke in 30 days?

We have but one question. How many of our ‘British Values’ will have to be sacrifice for the special relationship?

Make no bones about this: Cosying up to Trump threatens our national security. It threatens our democracy. It ruins what little moral authority we have left. It threatens our ties with Europe who we DO still need to have a relationship even if we are outside the EU. This is not world leadership. This is appeasement. This is cowardly weak and downright desperate.

Let us also not forget ‘Good old Boris’ pretending to be Churchill and calling the EU Nazis and Hitler during the Referendum and on several occasions since. He has now had the bare faced audicity to stand in the House of Commons and call MPs out repeatedly for ‘trivalising the holocaust’ or for making comparisons with the 1930s when they saying they have been told this by survivors of the holocaust. It is SHAMEFUL. I also note how many times Johnson referred to Trump being democratically elected as if this makes all the difference and he can’t possibly be a dictator if elected.

Why do they want to use the parallel themselves and HATE it when its used for things they use? Fascists hate being pointed out as fascists.

What would happen if you put it to the public? You have a choice, The EU or Trump? What would they say. At its most basic this is what Brexit is now. You can not hide it or disguise it any longer.

Get used to this. Be prepared to protest, to keep challenging, to keep calling things as they are. Fatigue might set in, but we need to keep on. This is for the long haul.

Today the a50 Bill starts in parliament. It’s not looking good, as it looks like MPs will completely fail in their DUTY to hold the government to account and will not have the balls to add amendments to the bill.

If it passes without any, get worried. It is not just about the EU.

It never was.

Thanks Red.

Starmer is getting heckled loads.
Chamber is full. Corbyn also on front bench.

Faisal Islam ‏***@faisalislam*

Starmer outlines Labour amendments to give Parliament a restraining power on PM -on final deal vote, workers rights, and EU nationals rights

Laura Kuenssberg ‏*@bbclaurak*
Outlines Labour amendments, taking a v deliberate sombre tone through his speech

Ian Dunt ‏*@IanDunt*
Very good speech by Starmer. Shame that the amendments behind it do not live up to its standards.

Angela Eagle interrupts asking whether the White Paper should be published before Committee Stage which is scheduled for next week. Starmer agrees. (How can they force this though?) Starmer now stressing its a vote to start the process and not the outcome. Says that 48% important more than ever and calls out Leaver gloating. Its about the 100%.

Faisal Islam ‏***@faisalislam*

Starmer criticises PM's "no bits of membership": Why would we want to be out of European Aviation Safety, EMA, Europoort, Eurojust? -he says

Faisal Islam ‏***@faisalislam*

Ah. @Anna_Soubry says that "All options should remain open" at the end of the negotiation process, and a matter for HoC, not Government

Ken Clarke now speaking saying why we should STILL be in the EU.

Sorry red usually like your thread intros, parts of them at least, but I don't like this one at all

Reasoned disagreement is good!

My problem is the speed, the lack of criticism and hand holding which gives a certain impression.

NATO as such is a very relevant point though.

Once again its not so much what May has done, but the manner in which she does it...

Wow just Wow at Ken Clarke. His speech deserves to be read in full when it comes up on Hansard.

Not just because he's pro-EU but because he's talking about parliamentary democracy and how parliament has been railroaded and has been told about this will of the people stuff which has killed proper debate.

Ian Dunt ‏*@IanDunt*

Tory MPs behind Clarke (Howarth and the one that looks like a Bond villain) fuming. Lovely to watch.

I thought most of the Tory Right Wing would do well in auditions for a Bond villain tbh...

Thanks Red

There are definitely worries about the likely effect of Bannon's shock events strategy on Sino American relations. Two articles, one from Beijing and one from America in the South China Morning post both drawing attention to the fact that a shock event would happen at a time when distrust is high and communication may break down. Will Xi be able to maintain the fiction that he is the grown up given his repressive policies in China?

www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy-defence/article/2065707/tempest-trump-china-and-us-urged-make-plans-major-storm

www.scmp.com/comment/insight-opinion/article/2066766/hawkish-navarro-us-trade-tsar-it-china-show-diplomatic

And Bannon has been open about his racist attitudes to Asians as well... In an interview with Trump www.vox.com/2017/1/29/14429984/trump-immigration-order-steve-bannon

TRUMP: We have to keep our talented people in this country.

BANNON: Um—

TRUMP: I think you agree with that. Do you agree with that?

BANNON: Well I got a tougher — you know, when two thirds or three quarters of the CEOs in Silicon Valley are from South Asia or from Asia, I think — on, my point is, a country’s more like, [inaudible], a country’s more than an economy. We’re a civic society.

Neat use of alternative facts (Asians are a minority of the CEOs in Silicon valley - 16% to be exact) and appeals to nationalism, because just like us citizens of the world, Asian / Asian Americans do not contribute to civil society.......

How May is seen overseas at the moment, this will be good for trade....

"Morality is clearly not a trait of British Prime Minister Theresa May, who behaved like Trump’s lapdog by refusing to join world leaders in condemning his Muslim ban. Her exact words were: “The United States is responsible for United States policy on refugees. The UK is responsible for UK policy on refugees.”
That astonishing statement is a blank cheque for every country to do as it pleases. China is responsible for its policy on Hong Kong. Former governor Chris Patten, please shut up. North Korea is responsible for its nuclear policy. The US, Japan, and South Korea must accept that. Burma is responsible for its human rights record. No one must interfere."

www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/2066804/hong-kong-solely-chinas-policy-according-what-theresa-may-told-donald

Ken is going on a bit but he is making so good points.

Faisal Islam ‏*@faisalislam*
KC: "Somehow I'm an enemy of the people. not going to change my opinion. hardcore eurosceptics would not have felt bound in the slightest"

He names Bill Cash as an example.

Says that Brexit means going into the rabbit warren coming out into wonderland and the hatter will have a tea party with a dormouse so we can get all our trade deals and recoup the cost of Brexit.

Ian Dunt ‏*@IanDunt*

Arguments Clarke is making are basic. But it's like watching Watership Down: a memory of a lovely past when things were reasonable and sane.

Very passionate speech.

Thanks so much, Red, my head is spinning after the past few days.

Sorry red usually like your thread intros, parts of them at least, but I don't like this one at all

My problem with your analysis Debbie is that you are pinning far far too much on what May is supposed to have achieved with NATO. We will have to see what Trump does. I fail to see how angering the Muslim world, which his ban has done, promotes peace. All bar one of the countries on his banned list are either failed states or war torn states or both. The exception being Iran. All I can see him doing is playing into the hands of ISIS.

What moral authority does the EU have being its major trade partner? Turkeys HR don't matter I suppose, the country that was quite modern but that is now going back to the dark ages.....

And this is why it has spent 35 years trying to get into the EU with no success. Did you miss that? Despite the Leave campaign promoting the idea of Turkey's accession.

Clarke
Ian Dunt ‏**@IanDunt**
'If I no longer give you the benefit of my judgement & simply follow my orders, I am not serving you. I am betraying you.'

Ian Dunt ‏**@IanDunt**
That was the best speech I've seen in the Commons for a long time. Deserved the applause

Stephen Gethins SNP now talking.

Well done Ken. I liked the Burke quote 'Your representative owes you not only his industry but his judgement but he betrays you if he sacrifices it to your opinion.'

steve richards ‏*@steverichards14*

KenClarke's speech similar to R Cook's pre Iraq- will be cited and admired when he proves to be right. All pro EU Lab MPs should be with him

Hadley Freeman ‏*@HadleyFreeman*

Too late to start a Ken Clarke for PM campaign?

Steve Peers ‏*@StevePeers*
Le Pen ordered to repay money spent on allegedly fake jobs

Faisal Islam ‏*@faisalislam*

SNP's @StephenGethins brandishes the Scottish Govt White paper on Scottish Independence 670 pages, to compare with current lack of paper

Bill Cash now speaking. Time for a toilet break.

Clarke would be a good PM, but is probably too old now. Still, he could have three years at it, and then stand down. Hmm, wonder if he will have a heart attack like Robin Cook? You can never tell whether this would have happened and was just unfortunate or whether the dirty tricks brigade got him.

Faisal Islam ‏*@faisalislam*
Now @BillCashMP up: "from 17th century.. Corn Laws, Suffragettes etc all determined by the decisions made in this House by backbencher"
Bill Cash: This Bill is about who runs this country

Ian Dunt ‏*@IanDunt*
It is a tragedy that this country is now being led by the ideas of men as short sighted and politically inadequate as Bill Cash.

I want to vomit at this shit. Its bollocks. Not least because he goes on about Remoaner after talking for 5 mins about how he fought against pro-Europeans.

.

Marking place.
I have a knot of dread in my stomach, it won't go away. Have written, protested and will keep doing so.
Thanks for all the info Red & co.

I don't know what Cash is saying, and daren't watch because I would end up throwing something at the screen. He doesn't like the Corn Laws because it split the Tory party, which for them is the be all and end all of being in Government. So is he saying we shouldn't have backbenchers because they don't give the Government carte blanche? Is he saying we shouldn't have women's suffrage? Is he just a prize tosser?

Louise Mensch ‏*@LouiseMensch*
Trump can try every trick in the book but the @CIA and @FBI are not going to be fussed by any manoeuvre of Father Jack #Bannon.

Don't really know what she's on about in this tweet but YES Father Jack! He so IS!

We need a good nickname or two to get through the politics right now.

Hilary Benn now speaking. Not really saying anything new atm.

www.irishtimes.com/opinion/irish-airport-pre-clearance-may-be-contributing-to-rights-violations-1.2957947
Irish airport pre clearance may be contributing to rights violations
Trump travel ban poses questions of legal responsibility and ethics for the Government

Worth pondering similar with regard to Ireland being an entry point to the UK and NI, especially if we change our entry policies.

I see the Father Jack comparison. Bannon always looks as though he's just come off a five day bender.

Sir Peter Mannion MP ‏*@PeterMannionMP*

Andrew Tyrie losing the will to live while listening to a Bill Cash. Don't we all.

Hehe!

IDS Up. Same thing.
Forget waterboarding.

Now Cleggy.

Frustrated at the government and the way its twisting things into a mandate.

Calls the Trump visit a 'Sycophantic Farce'.

Says we have cast aside our friends in Europe and forgot all about Ireland.

.

I think Bannon looks like he could be Boris' alcoholic father

Faisal Islam ‏*@faisalislam*

Clegg: quotes "senior German decision makers" as "keen to explore" emergency break in return for "undisruptive" Brexit - Govt spurned
Clegg: "When we search our consciences, we should think of the next generation [who voted 70%+ Remain]. I have a great sense of foreboding".
Clegg: "Negotiations are going to get nasty... the Government's position is asking for the impossible, the undeliverable"
Clegg:"not possible to say you arent going to abide by rulings of a marketplace and the expect unfettered access to it. Not going to happen"