Westministenders: Johnson defends his President whilst we try to defend Britain

[RedToothBrush]

Theresa and Donald
Sitting in a tree
K-I-S-S-I-N-G
First come Brexit
Then comes the Ban
Then comes the
Removal of Human Rights
… Damn

(Shamelessly stolen from a protest sign)

A couple of weeks ago people were still asking why we were talking about Trump on a Brexit thread. I think the answer has made itself all together too apparent.

What is happening in the US is not going to stop. It’s not going to get any better any time soon. The situation is grave with suggestions there has been a coup. What happens next is not going to be pretty. American institutions are struggling. The rule of law has been undermined. We are not talking about a developing country. We are talking about the country which has stood for freedom and democracy.

Our leadership looks weak in the face of this. We look like we are not only appeasing but endorsing. For what? A trade deal that he could revoke in 30 days?

We have but one question. How many of our ‘British Values’ will have to be sacrifice for the special relationship?

Make no bones about this: Cosying up to Trump threatens our national security. It threatens our democracy. It ruins what little moral authority we have left. It threatens our ties with Europe who we DO still need to have a relationship even if we are outside the EU. This is not world leadership. This is appeasement. This is cowardly weak and downright desperate.

Let us also not forget ‘Good old Boris’ pretending to be Churchill and calling the EU Nazis and Hitler during the Referendum and on several occasions since. He has now had the bare faced audicity to stand in the House of Commons and call MPs out repeatedly for ‘trivalising the holocaust’ or for making comparisons with the 1930s when they saying they have been told this by survivors of the holocaust. It is SHAMEFUL. I also note how many times Johnson referred to Trump being democratically elected as if this makes all the difference and he can’t possibly be a dictator if elected.

Why do they want to use the parallel themselves and HATE it when its used for things they use? Fascists hate being pointed out as fascists.

What would happen if you put it to the public? You have a choice, The EU or Trump? What would they say. At its most basic this is what Brexit is now. You can not hide it or disguise it any longer.

Get used to this. Be prepared to protest, to keep challenging, to keep calling things as they are. Fatigue might set in, but we need to keep on. This is for the long haul.

Today the a50 Bill starts in parliament. It’s not looking good, as it looks like MPs will completely fail in their DUTY to hold the government to account and will not have the balls to add amendments to the bill.

If it passes without any, get worried. It is not just about the EU.

It never was.

David To be fair to Branson he is actually the sharpest tool in the box unlike Trump....

After all, active members can shape how a party becomes - the current Tory party is very different from Ted Heath's party IMO. The Tories may never had a full commitment to the welfare state, but in those days it was something they accepted.

Election Data ‏***@election_data
According to @TimArticle50* the ward which the Lib Dems won from Labour last night voted 70/30 to LEAVE the EU. Colour me thinking.

Marie Le Conte ‏*@youngvulgarian*
@election_data I may be wildly wrong, but could it be (at least partly because demographically speaking, Remain voters more likely to vote?

Election Data ‏***@election_data
Here is @TimArticle50* blog with the official (FOI) EU referendum results by ward in Rotherham:
timawells.wordpress.com/2016/08/30/rotherham-borough-eu-referendum-results-by-ward-and-constituency-freedom-of-information/

Election Data says this official info. I can't verify that, but it looks it (totals match up cleanly with the full Rotherham area total):

Brinsworth & Catcliffe
1967 - Remain
4587 - Leave
6554 - Total
69.99% Leave

The Lib Dems got 2000 votes in this ward last night. On a 32% turnout. That's more than every person who voted to Remain according to this. EU ref turnout for the wider area was 69%. Last night 1029 people voted for any other party than the LDs.

It means both nothing and something at the same time. I would be thinking very long and very hard about this result if I were Labour though. One why or another this is a TOTAL disaster for them.

"Also, this morning when I first heard about it I assumed I just hadn't had enough caffeine. I've caffeined up, had a nice head clearing walk, made sure I'm totally able to concentrate of hard things etc now. Did someone really make up a massacre?"

Yes I am afraid so. Kelly Ann Conway used a made up massacre to justify Trump's Muslim ban.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/feb/03/kellyanne-conway-refugees-bowling-green-massacre-never-happened?CMP=othb-aplnewss_d-2

Are we allowed to start calling them fascists yet?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/2845127-Westministenders-Boris-and-his-friends-hand-in-their-homework-to-be-marked?watched=1

New Thread

Very interesting about the election result.

At the time the Libdems went into the coalition our Libdem MP was giving us regular updates on the whys and wherefores that did not look to be a cover for self interest and power grabbing. More a case of we reluctantly have to, it was implicit he would have preferred coalition with Labour, because if we don't it will be bad for the country and this way we have some leverage over Conservative Party austerity plans (and remember austerity, but done fairly, was in their manifesto). By those aims I think they did have modest success in keeping hold of the tiger by the tail given what has happened since they let go........

If he had been self interested he would not have advocated a mansion tax that would have applied to almost half the homes in the constituency and he would still be our MP. I know a lot of local people who did not vote for him for that specific reason.

However the goalposts of good government have now moved so far that I even have warm and cosy perceptions of David Cameron's PMship, oh for the days when jingoism was just spin and window dressing, not driving us over a cliff

What baffles me ron, is why more moderate Tories aren't breaking ranks and speaking out. Those ones who liked the commitment to the Single Market in the Manifesto for a start.

Peregrina - I suppose a lot of them look a the other parties that they could potentially jump to and feel underwhelmed/repulsed. Both Labour and the Conservatives have done a very good job for at least three decades of depicting the Liberals/LibDems as this nothing party that only geography teachers and sandal-wearing vegetarians would vote for, much less join (apologies to any sandal wearing, vegetarian geography teachers out there). These sorts of perceptions take time - and huge election success, I would suggest - to disprove.

Peregrina Our Tory MP is just wet. She is passionate about the need to take more refugees and I am absolutely sure she would personally not want to vote to trigger A50 even if she didn't have a strongly Remain constituency that will follow Richmond Park's example the first chance they get. I don't suppose she sleeps well at night.

Agreed on tuition fees though the resultant 27k of debt my DD will leave university with is not what worries me most in terms of the impact of government policy on her future.....

And my other DD does at least benefit from the Libdems having managed to negotiate a rise in the level beneath which you do not have to make repayments from 10k to 25k

Brexit crosses party divides and Labour is not a functioning as an opposition party

Brexit enthusiasm has a time limit though. A large proportion of its supporters have no idea what the economic consequences will be. When reality bites, support will wane & recriminations ensue.

Westminster voting intention:
CON: 40% (-)
LAB: 26% (+2)
UKIP: 12% (-2)
LDEM: 11% (+1)
GRN: 4% (-)
(via YouGov / 30 - 31 Jan)

I had difficult with going back to the LibDems after their going into coalition with the Tories and the tuition fees. So have my family and have all taken their votes elsewhere. But Brexit could destroy two of my children's jobs. DIL is mixed race and the unleashing of racism which was always there is now worse. So this affects them now and for the foreseeable future whereas their higher education years are behind them, so it's time to put the tuition fees business to one side IMO.

peregrina I feel the same, albeit with me I've found it hard to forgive Labour their lies on uni education. I completely hold Blair liable for the Tories actions now as he fired the first shot. However I said to DH that more important things were at stake and I would now overlook that and vote Labour. Then they fell to pieces. Possibly my fault there, sorry guys

Mother You are right, it went from 15k to 21k. I am pretty sure my dd, graduated 2015 does not have to pay below 25k though but I may be wrong.

All the things I found it hard to forgive have pretty much gone out of the window in the current landscape.

I would never have thought I could have forgiven Nick Clegg, but there are so few sensible MPs speaking up for Europe and analysing Brexit objectively, that I'm beginning to. Faute de mieux.

Who would have thought voters would ever go back to the LibDems after their dismal coalition performance, much of which was Clegg's fault.

Desperate times.

#DressLikeAWoman: Twitter backlash against Trump "dress code"

Some great pictures of strong women, wearing clothes:

www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/feb/03/dresslikeawoman-backlash-over-reports-of-dress-code-for-trump-staff

Living in a Tory/Lib Dem makes choosing the Lib Dems quite a straightforward decision. But, they were punished last time so we've a Tory MP in a Remain area. Interesting, except for boundary changes. Quite annoyed I won't be able to see what happens. I wrote to my Lib Dem MP a few times (once about a proposed change to abortion law, I think) and he replied with some rather disparaging comments about Nadine Dorries.