Westministenders: Johnson defends his President whilst we try to defend Britain

[RedToothBrush]

Theresa and Donald
Sitting in a tree
K-I-S-S-I-N-G
First come Brexit
Then comes the Ban
Then comes the
Removal of Human Rights
… Damn

(Shamelessly stolen from a protest sign)

A couple of weeks ago people were still asking why we were talking about Trump on a Brexit thread. I think the answer has made itself all together too apparent.

What is happening in the US is not going to stop. It’s not going to get any better any time soon. The situation is grave with suggestions there has been a coup. What happens next is not going to be pretty. American institutions are struggling. The rule of law has been undermined. We are not talking about a developing country. We are talking about the country which has stood for freedom and democracy.

Our leadership looks weak in the face of this. We look like we are not only appeasing but endorsing. For what? A trade deal that he could revoke in 30 days?

We have but one question. How many of our ‘British Values’ will have to be sacrifice for the special relationship?

Make no bones about this: Cosying up to Trump threatens our national security. It threatens our democracy. It ruins what little moral authority we have left. It threatens our ties with Europe who we DO still need to have a relationship even if we are outside the EU. This is not world leadership. This is appeasement. This is cowardly weak and downright desperate.

Let us also not forget ‘Good old Boris’ pretending to be Churchill and calling the EU Nazis and Hitler during the Referendum and on several occasions since. He has now had the bare faced audicity to stand in the House of Commons and call MPs out repeatedly for ‘trivalising the holocaust’ or for making comparisons with the 1930s when they saying they have been told this by survivors of the holocaust. It is SHAMEFUL. I also note how many times Johnson referred to Trump being democratically elected as if this makes all the difference and he can’t possibly be a dictator if elected.

Why do they want to use the parallel themselves and HATE it when its used for things they use? Fascists hate being pointed out as fascists.

What would happen if you put it to the public? You have a choice, The EU or Trump? What would they say. At its most basic this is what Brexit is now. You can not hide it or disguise it any longer.

Get used to this. Be prepared to protest, to keep challenging, to keep calling things as they are. Fatigue might set in, but we need to keep on. This is for the long haul.

Today the a50 Bill starts in parliament. It’s not looking good, as it looks like MPs will completely fail in their DUTY to hold the government to account and will not have the balls to add amendments to the bill.

If it passes without any, get worried. It is not just about the EU.

It never was.

Peregrina I still had Rotherham constituency up on my screen.

Oct 1974
Lab 25784 65%
Con 8840 22%
Lib 5350 13%

In was much the same in Feb GE the same year except Lab got 60%, Cons 22% and lib 17%.

That's about as high as they ever have got apart from 1994 Westminster by-election when they got 27% of vote. Though for context The Monster Raving Looney just missed out on retaining their deposit that year....

Yet yesterday my DH heard two people say: 'Theresa is doing a good job'.
He walked off rather than press them as to why. I suspect they wouldn't have been able to give convincing answers.

Thanks Red - a better result for the Liberals than I thought.

This affects the Tories less because their elderly Middle class core voters do tend turn out - at least in by elections

I am not sure that this was the case in the Witney by election - I think a lot of Tory voters stayed at home. They couldn't blame the weather either, it was a pleasant Autumn day. Obviously as Cameron's old seat, it was slightly different in that many Tories felt he had let them down.

I did a bit of canvassing for the Lib Dems in my local area a few weeks ago. This is a traditionally Tory voting mixed income area, with young professionals but also several housing cooperatives and a few streets with mostly elderly voters. Roughly 55% remain area. The interesting thing was that there has been a big increase in voting intention for the Lib Dems, and it has come from (a) low income and vulnerable to "austerity" (disabled, elderly, single parent families with young children) voters who voted Leave, and (b) high income Tory and Labour voters who voted Remain and are really motivated by (as in really angry with) Brexit. I spoke to many people who voted Leave but were intending to vote LD. I don't know how this translates into GE rather than local elections, but I found it interesting. Maybe the support is coming from two different directions?

Do you remember when Spitting Image started to portray Thatcher as swivel eyed gun toting neo Nazi Stalinist towards the end of her 'reign'?
Remember the sketch in restaurant:
Waiter: What would you like prime minister?
Thatcher: Steak, rare
Waiter: And what about the vegetables?
Camera pans to the cabinet puppets sitting next to her.
Thatcher: They'll have the same.

May's hubris is starting to tilt in that direction, could see the warning sighs in PMQs on Wednesday.

warning signs, sorry

If you are actually interested semi -
I care for my frail elderly mother (she had another heart attack last week sadly)
And I volunteer in schools teaching children literacy
But yes, I suppose by your definition (from the 1950s) I am a "kept" woman
And I am the daughter of an immigrant - a white one though so that's ok, right?
I am a really hoping my dh can get a job abroad - I want out of this backwards looking country

I only asked if you were a 'kept woman' because you (as with many) airily throw out your husband's tax paying status when bemoaning how 'the poor' didn't vote in line with what you considered to be the 'right' way (in the specific post I referred to it was 'people on benefits' though, not just 'the poor').

I equally don't care about your immigrant status or background - I am not anti-immigrant one jot - so please don't make that inference about me.

What would happen if Nuttall won?

No one seems to agree. Guardian saying yesterday he's unlikely to be done. But others seem to be suggesting differently. It does carry a prison sentence potentially but some saying a ban from holding public office is also possible.

If it was pursued and he won there would be another by-election.

The police are involved as complaint by public has been made so it's up to them to decide.

Thing is, he ALREADY holds a public office. If police do decide to pursue in theory he could loose and still be done I believe. Which could loose him his MEP seat.

I think the short answer is that no one really knows what will happen though.

Poor Paul must be missing his family this week...

It's also notable who seems to think there needs to be a 'solution to people in benefits'

What is this supposed to mean?

Just to add, I wonder if the LD are picking up the "soft" Leave vote, is in the Leave vote opposed to Hard Brexit?

Semi, Badders' post was very clearly about the impact of lost tax revenue on the poorest post-Brexit.

I think the Lib Dems are picking up the soft Leave vote - the ones who want to stay in the Single Market e.g. who want a Norway style agreement. As don't forget, Farage and Hannan used to want. Even though apparently now Hard Brexit was the only option that all Leavers wanted.

Pointing out the obvious here, but it would really be much better if Paul Nuttall didn't win: if the authorities were to pursue a case against him post-victory, it would play into UKIP's narrative that they are unfairly picked on by "The Establishment" . If his win was subsequently declared void, then another by-election could see a very definitive UKIP win as some voters could feel that the authorities were trying to diddle the results to keep them out (and not, as is clearly the case, Paul "Pants on Fire" Nuttall has been caught out lying again).

A really comfortable UKIP win would make me want to slash my wrists.

Missmoon that is not quite buyer's remorse but it's certainly a fear of cuts. If people start to see a clear link between more austerity or cuts to the NHS and Brexit what is going to happen?

No one voted to be poorer.

At the moment the economy is still doing ok. A lot of this is based on consumer confidence and positivity about Brexit from the public that wasn't anticipated (as well as the point that we haven't actually left yet and predictions were based on an immediate triggering of a50 and shock effect as result which never happened).

Things will start to bite more this year. We have looked at our finances over the last month and are tightening our belt for the first time... If we are, others will be starting to feel the pinch...

Interesting that people are not turning to Lab nor UKIP though when many blame LDs for austerity still.

Badders it sounds like the actual contributions you make to society and your family are more valuable than economic returns.

Semi, Badders' post was very clearly about the impact of lost tax revenue on the poorest post-Brexit.

It was her agreeing with post immediately above hers, this one:

The more alt-right people I know are those who've relied or do currently rely on benefits but don't like how they're only basic levels so resent forriners for either getting them too or using the nhs etc. All money they'd prefer in their pockets.

Bad enough imo, but then Badders went one step further by chucking in this:

^I'm not sure who they think is going to pay the taxes to pay their benefits if people like my dh leave the uk (and take his 40% tax with him)
^

Grumpy...thank you x
Rufus...it's what "they" do...obfuscate the actual point being made and act outraged (and use terms from the 1950s when describing women)
I'm liking the look of Canada - and just because Trudeau is hot 😂
"Turkeys voting for Xmas" is pretty accurate imo
Sadly

Semi...I quote my dhs tax payments as he is the only one in our marriage who pays tax
HTH

"No one voted to be poorer."

Well, almost no one.

That was a letter printed in the Mail, in case you couldn't guess.

Nah
People don't value education
Nor looking after the elderly
Quite ironic really when you consider how much taxpayer money I'm saving the govt by doing both of those things 😀
I do actually work - but I handed my notice In This week as I'm struggling to work and my family commitments

So from next month I AM a "kept woman"
I shall a turban and housecoat and join an am dram society
🤔😂

The fact you read what you did into that post says a lot more about you than it does badders or myself. We're talking about alt right people we know. You seem to think it people on benefits requires a 'solution'.

It's heartbreaking actually
I work with the kids who come from the poorest backgrounds and who have what I would term deprivation of aspiration
Their families all overwhelmingly voted leave - most are on benefits or are SP and many of their kids have additional needs.
I worry what will happen to them.
And their families.

Badders

Quite hash!!