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Brexit

Westministenders: Johnson defends his President whilst we try to defend Britain

998 replies

RedToothBrush · 31/01/2017 11:25

Theresa and Donald
Sitting in a tree
K-I-S-S-I-N-G
First come Brexit
Then comes the Ban
Then comes the
Removal of Human Rights
… Damn

(Shamelessly stolen from a protest sign)

A couple of weeks ago people were still asking why we were talking about Trump on a Brexit thread. I think the answer has made itself all together too apparent.

What is happening in the US is not going to stop. It’s not going to get any better any time soon. The situation is grave with suggestions there has been a coup. What happens next is not going to be pretty. American institutions are struggling. The rule of law has been undermined. We are not talking about a developing country. We are talking about the country which has stood for freedom and democracy.

Our leadership looks weak in the face of this. We look like we are not only appeasing but endorsing. For what? A trade deal that he could revoke in 30 days?

We have but one question. How many of our ‘British Values’ will have to be sacrifice for the special relationship?

Make no bones about this: Cosying up to Trump threatens our national security. It threatens our democracy. It ruins what little moral authority we have left. It threatens our ties with Europe who we DO still need to have a relationship even if we are outside the EU. This is not world leadership. This is appeasement. This is cowardly weak and downright desperate.

Let us also not forget ‘Good old Boris’ pretending to be Churchill and calling the EU Nazis and Hitler during the Referendum and on several occasions since. He has now had the bare faced audicity to stand in the House of Commons and call MPs out repeatedly for ‘trivalising the holocaust’ or for making comparisons with the 1930s when they saying they have been told this by survivors of the holocaust. It is SHAMEFUL. I also note how many times Johnson referred to Trump being democratically elected as if this makes all the difference and he can’t possibly be a dictator if elected.

Why do they want to use the parallel themselves and HATE it when its used for things they use? Fascists hate being pointed out as fascists.

What would happen if you put it to the public? You have a choice, The EU or Trump? What would they say. At its most basic this is what Brexit is now. You can not hide it or disguise it any longer.

Get used to this. Be prepared to protest, to keep challenging, to keep calling things as they are. Fatigue might set in, but we need to keep on. This is for the long haul.

Today the a50 Bill starts in parliament. It’s not looking good, as it looks like MPs will completely fail in their DUTY to hold the government to account and will not have the balls to add amendments to the bill.

If it passes without any, get worried. It is not just about the EU.

It never was.

OP posts:
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18
Bearbehind · 01/02/2017 12:29

Does anyone else get all stabby about how John Bercow announces people?

CeciledeVolanges · 01/02/2017 12:31

Me me me

Peregrina · 01/02/2017 12:35

The MP for Jarrow asked for a yes/no answer about social care. He didn't get it. He got a dig about Labour hadn't done anything for 13 years. I don't know what Labour's record was, but I suspect that TM is wrong on that.

CeciledeVolanges · 01/02/2017 12:43

I just get stabby about John Bercow in general actually.

AlternativeLies · 01/02/2017 12:44

Peregrina

The yes/no answer that the Conservatives had been responsible for £4.6bn worth of Social Care budget cuts got a of response of:

^Increased funding for local authorities.
Best practice sharing nationwide.
Longer term issue for sustainable care we are addressing it.^
(Not exact quotes)
But no actual answer to the question.

Bearbehind · 01/02/2017 12:45

Agreed cecilede

AlternativeLies · 01/02/2017 12:51

Woman

To be fair to her I understood it as she was condemning the recent coup against Erodgan.
She then went on to say that she had made comments in her joint press conferences that she promoted values etc...etc....
(Not exact quote)
I didn't watch the press conference coverage from Turkey so I might check that out to see if that is accurate but I assume it will be or she would now she'd get pulled up on it.

However my opinion on whether she even should be getting into bed with him is another cup of tea entirely.

SapphireStrange · 01/02/2017 12:51

Can you imagine what Tony benn would have said about this labour omnishambles!?

Christ, he's never been more missed.

Was also thinking how much I'd love to have Glenda Jackson back in politics at the moment. We need more like her, and Ken Clarke.

AlternativeLies · 01/02/2017 12:56

Just posted this on the other thread but for me:

So much talk of NATO and increased budgets and commitments.

All this shows it that the last 10-20 years worth of foreign policy have not worked we are living in a world where we value guns over butter.

And even Maggie the blue blooded queen of the right would actually despair at that.

prettybird · 01/02/2017 12:59

Talking about coups, not sure if this has been posted yet

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-michael-moore-coup-us-steve-bannon-sally-yates-rule-of-law-a7554556.html?cmpid=facebook-post

Michael Moore saying that the US is in the middle of a coup, 'If you're still trying to convince yourself that a 21st century coup is not underway, please, please snap out of it'

ElenaGreco123 · 01/02/2017 13:00

I was just reading the Guardian editorial about Father Jack Steve Bannon www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/31/steve-bannon-most-dangerous-man-in-america
Do you remember the furore over Andy Coulson's security clearance or lack of it? How quaint does it sound now?

The Telegraph hopes we are safe from really crazy Trump policies till next Saturday www.telegraph.co.uk/fashion/people/gowngate-ivanka-trump-said-feel-terrible-photo-5000-dress-posted/

One theory suggests that because Ivanka and her husband are both practising Orthodox Jews, they had been observing the Sabbath. This would mean that from sundown on Friday until sundown on Saturday, the pair cut themselves off from technology and rest.

In fact, it is this religious practice which is being offered as the reason why President Trump has carried out some of his more extreme actions (like sending out press secretary Sean Spicer to say that the crowds at his Inauguration had been record-breaking) on Saturdays when Jared Kushner, Ivanka’s husband and now a close adviser to the President, is not present or in touch.

AlternativeLies · 01/02/2017 13:05

Elena

It wasn't just Coulson remember Adam Werritty and Liam Fox.

woman12345 · 01/02/2017 13:18

"against Erodgan".
Was it against?
And her use of the adverb to qualify her condemnation:
While I condemn the recent coup in Turkey.
Didn't she phrase it that way?
I'll look again later, but it seemed a very peculiar coup at the time, with live TV coverage etc.

ElenaGreco123 · 01/02/2017 13:19

AlternativeLies Your are right. Who gets access to what used to matter.

SemiPermanent · 01/02/2017 13:21

So much talk of NATO and increased budgets and commitments.

All this shows it that the last 10-20 years worth of foreign policy have not worked we are living in a world where we value guns over butter.

As a former member of the armed forces, I can assure you it is more than guns & war.

In my time from mid 1995 to 2015, there has been numerous occasions where we were called on to help citizens of this country:
Foot & mouth
Numerous Floods
Security (Olympics etc)
Fire strikes
(Also training up for possible prison strikes)
Search & rescue (air)
Mountain rescue

Numerous times where we have aided foreign nationals:
Airlift evacuations
Hostage extractions
Humanitarian air drops
Ebola
Post natural disaster relief & aid

As well as our day job, which included keeping fighter aircraft on continuous standby - ready to launch within minutes - to protect all of the citizens of the UK from a British 9/11 style attack.

There's far, far more to the British armed forces than running around with guns or 'moronic war fetishism' btw.

AlternativeLies · 01/02/2017 13:23

Woman

Not sure I'd have to watch back and also watch the press conferences. As I said that was my understanding but she may have played me for a fool.

AlternativeLies · 01/02/2017 13:26

Semi
I think you've missed my point it isn't a criticism of NATO what it is there for or what it does, it was a criticism of the need to have it at its current level due to successive governments foreign policy failures.

boredofbrexit · 01/02/2017 14:26

This was posted some time ago but very relevant

Westministenders: Johnson defends his President whilst we try to defend Britain
CeciledeVolanges · 01/02/2017 14:30

Semi thank you for your service - I think there is a difference between having a well trained and equipped army and,say, funding Trident though.

AlternativeLies · 01/02/2017 14:35

Woman

So I’ve had a look and can only find at the moment (due to time constraints) the press conference with Yildrim. The Official remarks have absolutely nothing to confirm that she said anything to encourage and promote further democratic actions within Turkey or criticise any human rights issues.

www.gov.uk/government/speeches/pm-press-conference-with-turkish-pm-yildirim-28-january-2017

I’ve also linked the Youtube footage of it and from 21:00 minute in is where it gets interesting as this is where the Trump ban questions begin.

Honestly nothing I have seen in this has shown me that she shares any morale values with me but unfortunately until the next GE she is my serving PM.

SemiPermanent · 01/02/2017 14:41

Cecile, I'm very proud of what all 3 of our armed forces do - most of all proud of the things they do which aren't 'war'.

Fwiw, I don't think trident should have been renewed (personally).
It's a whole heap of wasted money on something that will most probably never be used (I sincerely hope not anyway).

Peregrina · 01/02/2017 14:45

It's a whole heap of wasted money on something that will most probably never be used (I sincerely hope not anyway).

Yes, and the money spent on it would be better spent equipping existing troops with better equipment.

Motheroffourdragons · 01/02/2017 14:48

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ to protect the privacy of the user.

SemiPermanent · 01/02/2017 14:54

I think it would be more than enough to do both Mother (not sure how much trident is going to cost but know it's an obscene amount).

woman12345 · 01/02/2017 15:02

May's slip of the tongue, which I may have misheard:
"While I condemn the coup in Turkey"
was Freudian slip, because tory press here reported on suspicions about the 'coup' at the time.

www.express.co.uk/news/world/690520/Turkey-coup-Erdogan-set-up-military-staged-tighten-Islamist-grip-power

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3693729/Did-Erdogan-STAGE-coup-based-Turkish-cleric-facing-extradition-botched-rebellion-claims-president-orchestrated-plot-justify-clampdown-civil-rights.html

Is this clear, is anyone reporting this?
She knew about this one too.