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Brexit

Westministenders. For God sake Boris, is that the best plan you can come up with?

967 replies

RedToothBrush · 30/11/2016 10:25

Its now five months from the referendum. Plans for leaving should be well advanced by now. Shouldn't they? We should have got past this ridiculous idea that we can have our cake and eat it. Yet the plan is a secret, well apart from when the EU leak things to the press or junior ministers let their underlings carry their notes for them.

A photo taken this week outside Downing Street, suggests that the ‘Have Cake And Eat It’ Plan really is seriously being considered by the government. This plan is 'clear' it has been spelt out many times by the government and yet no one has a fucking clue what it is apart from a car crash of utter nonsense, wishful thinking and fingers in the ears. Its so clear that Theresa May has admitted she is losing sleep over it, and has faith that God will steer us through via her moral compass (which I suspect to have been left on top of a rather large electro-magnet given her track record so far)

Still this, however, seems to be better than the ‘Fuck You’ Plan (or should that be 'Fuck EU') that is official UKIP policy and is to ignore a50 and leave the EU unilaterally. And possibly illegally, so no one will ever want to make an international agreement with the UK.

And this, is still at least better than ‘We Have No’ Plan that Labour have.

Other suggested plans are:
The ‘Lets Leave the UK and Screw Ourselves Another Way’ Plan as supported by the SNP which the majority of Scots seem to be against
The Welsh are quietly cultivating the ‘Shh Nobody Mention We Voted Leave But Are Now Going to be Difficult’ Plan as they suddenly realise they are about to be shafted financially and might lose the Welsh Assembly in the process.
NI might still go down the ‘Lets Unify Ireland and Start Another Chapter in Violence’ Plan though, the alternative might well be the ‘Lets Stay in the Union and Start Another Chapter in Violence’ Plan anyway, so they are screwed due to the immense thoughtfulness of the English.
Meanwhile the Lib Dems are all about the ‘Lets Just Not Do This and Instead Risk a Revolt’ Plan.

If anyone does actually have a coherent plan, then there are lots of parties who would love to hear from you.

Lets be honest about the secrecy though. Its not about the EU knowing our plans. They already know what all our options are, or more to the point, aren't. The government want to keep it out of parliament because they want to control it, and because they don't want the press to know. They do not want transparency, as they are so weak and so fearful that they will be shown up for what they are, even when there is no opposition.

So we are screwed. Unless somehow someone comes to their senses and puts it to the EU that a50 isn’t fit for purpose and that a new treaty must be done to respect the democratic will of the people and the EU let us go down that route (Hey didn’t I say that months ago?).

Tomorrow we have the completely pointless and costly vanity by-election for Zac Goldsmith. The referendum about Heathrow and not at all about Brexit. Latest betting 2/7 on Goldsmith and 5/2 on the Lib Dems. I think Goldsmith with his good looks will just sneak it, unless turnout is really low. But it will be close.

Sunday we have the Italian Referendum, which some have suggested would the Italian Bank Melt Down (and start of a new Eurozone Crisis) though many here say this fear is massively over stated through Brexit tinted spectacles. Sunday also sees the Austria Presidential Election Re-run with the Far Right Candidate currently looking like he has the slight edge.

A50. The Supreme Court case starts next week. Scotland say they have a veto. Wales say they are worried about the Devolution Problem. NI still might have their defeat in the High Court overturned and there is the Good Friday agreement. The Supreme Court might insist that the Great Repeal Act might need to be passed before we can invoke a50. And the plan if the government lose is merely a 3 line Bill which they want to rush through in 5 days no one would dare defy. Well except the Lib Dems are already saying they want amendments to ensure parliamentary scrutiny and what is the point of the Lords if they don't. So there is a fair old chance that if the government loses given the wider scope of the Supreme Court Case, a 3 line bill simply won’t cover everything it needs to.

We still don’t know if the ECJ might get involved. It seems the Republic of Ireland, might have a say in that too. An ECJ referral would mean a 4 to 8 month delay, even with the sensitivity and the importance of the case.

Don’t forget if you were planning on going/worried about it the 100,000 March on the Supreme Court is off. Due to not being planned in the first place although Leave.Eu will tell you different.

Speaking of the Great Repeal Act. This is supposed to be started in May. This would give it less than two years to be ready before we left the EU. Yet it has a load of hurdles to leap in its sheer complexity, and there is a real danger this will not be long enough. If not done correctly it has the potential to mean the legal system would “fall over”. This is basically the legal equivalent of when you mean yourself in a time travelling sci-fi creating a paradox which threatens the very existence of time itself.

A127. Another treaty, another challenge? Possibly, but maybe only a way to bargain for the EEA rather than something more. But it just shows the legal headache Brexit is. We still could end up in the ECJ on any number of other issues – not just a50. You know this legal headache the government is ignoring by having no lawyer in the Brexit Cabinet, and UKIP are just plan delusional about.

Anyway UKIP have a new leader. Paul Nuttalls. (sic – see Stuart Lee). He wants to privatise the NHS though he denies having said it either on camera or on his blog. Everytime anyone says ‘Paul Nuttalls to you, remember to say ‘Oh the one who wants to privatise the NHS?’ Just to make sure everyone is away that he wants to privatise the NHS. Repeat Ad nauseam. Hell this is what Labour are going to be doing, as they are bloody terrified. Why? Simple. He will, of course, be hugely popular despite this cos he’s got the right accent and says the ‘right things’. By ‘right things’ I mean cos he spouts utter bollocks. Which probably means he’s also electable seeing as utter bollocks is now political currency. Plus Labour are rather lacking in any policies, so utter bollocks policies easily fill the void.

Talking of utter bollocks, I haven’t mentioned Trump yet. The Greens have requested a recount and are supported by the Democrats, though they say they haven’t found anything dubious themselves yet. Trump says it’s a scam. Goebbels once said when telling the Big Lie accuse your opposition of what you are guilty of yourself, so I'm not betting either way given that is the political strategy Trump has employed with gusto. I dread to think of the mess that would cause if the recount came out in favour of Clinton.

So another couple of fun weeks on the cards, which will have you reaching for the gin and wondering if there is anyone left alive who actually gives a toss about what happens to real people and isn’t prepared to commit economic and democratic suicide.

Only another month to go before the 2016 Repeal Act comes into force. 2017 looks smashing.
Shamelessly stolen from David Allen Green

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Thread gallery
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Melassa · 01/12/2016 21:27

Correct Mistigri, DDavis was talking about Norway lite, which of course is not on offer. My apologies, missed out that nugget.

I strongly suspect that in the end there will be some sort of non-exit exit, where the EU concedes the Uk's right to revert to blue passports, and that will be it. My Dad would probably be happy with that.😄

Melassa · 01/12/2016 21:29

Not that he can afford to travel, with the bottom having fallen out of the pound.

Unicornsarelovely · 01/12/2016 21:46

If there is a Norway lite type deal, it would also deal with another one of TM's poorly understood red lines and take us out of the direct authority of the ECJ. The EFTA court fulfils more of less the same function but very importantly it is not called the ECJ.

Interestingly of course one of the huge arguments against TTIP was that disputes would be resolved by arbitrators behind closed doors rather than in a public court. If you ever do business in the US you'll know it is vital to agree that disputes will go to arbitration not litigation whereas the European court system is incredibly transparent and straightforward by comparison. Largely because judges aren't elected by local people.

RedToothBrush · 01/12/2016 22:11

Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB 1h
My understanding is that Richard Park very very tight with LDs thinking they might just edge it on differential turnout

@MattSingh_ Got no numbers. Just a text from my source.

If Zac loses he'll be the first sitting MP since 1986 to have resigned & not got re-elected in the by-election.

@JolyonMaugham Big unknown is what soft CON remainers are doing.Are they sticking with Zac or is sending message on Brexit more important?

My source is same person who told me at this stage in 2013 Eastleigh by-election that LDs would win by 2k. It was actually 1,771.

Being reported that Richmond Park turnout at below 50%

On that turnout if the LDs can get 20,000 votes, they could take the seat. Result due between 2.30 and 4.00am.

I reckoned the LD needed a turnout of around that mark to win. The turnout being 40 - 50% is a good sign for the LDs.

Going to be v tight...

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Peregrina · 01/12/2016 22:19

So very much like the Witney turn out, where a lot of Tories stayed at home? Which tells you something. It's certainly not a ringing endorsement of Theresa May.

LibDems have certainly been winning lots of council seats, but I am not yet convinced that it's due to a new found enthusiasm for Liberal Democracy, more like a comment on the dire state of both Labour and the Tories. I don't think I will stay up for the result.

RedToothBrush · 01/12/2016 23:09

Britain elects saying
Lib Dem councillor on the ground in Richmond Park saying it's looking like a few thousand votes in it either way.

Very much what I suspected when I looked at figures when by-election was first triggered, so if true, very interesting.

Mike Smithson has been making the point that the current political parties are a lot more irrelevant than in the past. People voting on brexit primarily. New era of voting.

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missmoon · 01/12/2016 23:09

Fingers crossed...

RedToothBrush · 01/12/2016 23:14

Greg palast @greg_palast
BREAKING: Lead #recount lawyer, Bob Fitrakis, tells me 19 counties in Wisconsin are refusing to give the recount team access to ballots!

Well this could get interesting....

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RedToothBrush · 01/12/2016 23:24

Faisal Islam @faisalislam
Treasury Select Committee Chair Tyrie asks the National Audit Office to examine if/ how much Government assurances to Nissan cost

Law and policy @lawandpolicy
Boom
This could be significant. NAO have powers in Whitehall which cannot be resisted.

The government has refused a FOI request on commercial ground but this might have more power.

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RedToothBrush · 01/12/2016 23:33

Faisal Islam @faisalislam
They're only verifying the votes right now - but teams are sample counting the votes and Libdem's Olney seems to be ahead - going to be close

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RedToothBrush · 01/12/2016 23:34

Wonder if there will be a 'Sunderland' moment tonight too!

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Kaija · 01/12/2016 23:39

Hope so. (Was out door knocking there this morning.)

RedToothBrush · 01/12/2016 23:40

Faisal Islam @faisal Islam
Yes - every tabulation clipboard I have seen so far has Olney, slightly ahead. Could be a sampling error though. Its close.

Two points here: All ahead for olney in sample! BUT the sample tend to be at the bottom of box so first votes cast in the day so that might unnaturally favour votes from enthusiast votes (as in ld voters wanting to spank goldsmith)

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RedToothBrush · 01/12/2016 23:42

Southbourne (Chichester) result:
LDEM: 57.7% (+15.8)
CON: 25.8% (-32.3)
UKIP: 11.8% (+11.8)
LAB: 4.7% (+4.7)

Ld gain from con

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RedToothBrush · 01/12/2016 23:46

Election data @election_data
Money lining up to back LibDems at Evens now #RichmondPark

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RedToothBrush · 01/12/2016 23:48

Mike Smithson @msmithsonpb
LDs now favourite on Betfair

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RedToothBrush · 01/12/2016 23:52

Election data @election_data
LibDems currently trading at 1/5 to win #RichmondPark

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RedToothBrush · 01/12/2016 23:57

Mike Smithson @msmithsonpb
At 2006 Dunfermline by election LAB was trading at 1/4 on Betfair just as the results were being read out. They lost

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RedToothBrush · 02/12/2016 00:01

Otto English @otto_english
Mensch and Farage are on #bbcqt next week. As appetising a prospect as a bout of Chlamydia on a damp grey Monday morning in Slough #bbcqt

Bit unfair on slough. Surely nothing is horrendous as those two being in the same room.

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RedToothBrush · 02/12/2016 00:09

Mike Smithson @msmithsonpb
Getting very tight on Betfair again.

Here comes Sunderland?

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RedToothBrush · 02/12/2016 00:14

Mike Smithson @msmithsonpb
I'm told there's still some nervousness in the LD camp over the postal votes

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Marmitelover55 · 02/12/2016 00:23

Keeping my fingers crossed for a LD win. Don't know whether to stay up..?

SwedishEdith · 02/12/2016 00:32

Turnout is 56.3% - don't know how that compares to usual by-elections? Tories staying away?

RedToothBrush · 02/12/2016 00:33

Turnout out 41000 or 56.3%
High for a by-election.

That's your Sunderland moment. Turnout favours goldsmith. Think he'll get it now.

Would be very happy to be wrong.

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Kaija · 02/12/2016 00:50

Thought high turnout favoured lib dems in this case?

Think that's right about the postal votes though unfortunately.