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Brexit

Westministenders. For God sake Boris, is that the best plan you can come up with?

967 replies

RedToothBrush · 30/11/2016 10:25

Its now five months from the referendum. Plans for leaving should be well advanced by now. Shouldn't they? We should have got past this ridiculous idea that we can have our cake and eat it. Yet the plan is a secret, well apart from when the EU leak things to the press or junior ministers let their underlings carry their notes for them.

A photo taken this week outside Downing Street, suggests that the ‘Have Cake And Eat It’ Plan really is seriously being considered by the government. This plan is 'clear' it has been spelt out many times by the government and yet no one has a fucking clue what it is apart from a car crash of utter nonsense, wishful thinking and fingers in the ears. Its so clear that Theresa May has admitted she is losing sleep over it, and has faith that God will steer us through via her moral compass (which I suspect to have been left on top of a rather large electro-magnet given her track record so far)

Still this, however, seems to be better than the ‘Fuck You’ Plan (or should that be 'Fuck EU') that is official UKIP policy and is to ignore a50 and leave the EU unilaterally. And possibly illegally, so no one will ever want to make an international agreement with the UK.

And this, is still at least better than ‘We Have No’ Plan that Labour have.

Other suggested plans are:
The ‘Lets Leave the UK and Screw Ourselves Another Way’ Plan as supported by the SNP which the majority of Scots seem to be against
The Welsh are quietly cultivating the ‘Shh Nobody Mention We Voted Leave But Are Now Going to be Difficult’ Plan as they suddenly realise they are about to be shafted financially and might lose the Welsh Assembly in the process.
NI might still go down the ‘Lets Unify Ireland and Start Another Chapter in Violence’ Plan though, the alternative might well be the ‘Lets Stay in the Union and Start Another Chapter in Violence’ Plan anyway, so they are screwed due to the immense thoughtfulness of the English.
Meanwhile the Lib Dems are all about the ‘Lets Just Not Do This and Instead Risk a Revolt’ Plan.

If anyone does actually have a coherent plan, then there are lots of parties who would love to hear from you.

Lets be honest about the secrecy though. Its not about the EU knowing our plans. They already know what all our options are, or more to the point, aren't. The government want to keep it out of parliament because they want to control it, and because they don't want the press to know. They do not want transparency, as they are so weak and so fearful that they will be shown up for what they are, even when there is no opposition.

So we are screwed. Unless somehow someone comes to their senses and puts it to the EU that a50 isn’t fit for purpose and that a new treaty must be done to respect the democratic will of the people and the EU let us go down that route (Hey didn’t I say that months ago?).

Tomorrow we have the completely pointless and costly vanity by-election for Zac Goldsmith. The referendum about Heathrow and not at all about Brexit. Latest betting 2/7 on Goldsmith and 5/2 on the Lib Dems. I think Goldsmith with his good looks will just sneak it, unless turnout is really low. But it will be close.

Sunday we have the Italian Referendum, which some have suggested would the Italian Bank Melt Down (and start of a new Eurozone Crisis) though many here say this fear is massively over stated through Brexit tinted spectacles. Sunday also sees the Austria Presidential Election Re-run with the Far Right Candidate currently looking like he has the slight edge.

A50. The Supreme Court case starts next week. Scotland say they have a veto. Wales say they are worried about the Devolution Problem. NI still might have their defeat in the High Court overturned and there is the Good Friday agreement. The Supreme Court might insist that the Great Repeal Act might need to be passed before we can invoke a50. And the plan if the government lose is merely a 3 line Bill which they want to rush through in 5 days no one would dare defy. Well except the Lib Dems are already saying they want amendments to ensure parliamentary scrutiny and what is the point of the Lords if they don't. So there is a fair old chance that if the government loses given the wider scope of the Supreme Court Case, a 3 line bill simply won’t cover everything it needs to.

We still don’t know if the ECJ might get involved. It seems the Republic of Ireland, might have a say in that too. An ECJ referral would mean a 4 to 8 month delay, even with the sensitivity and the importance of the case.

Don’t forget if you were planning on going/worried about it the 100,000 March on the Supreme Court is off. Due to not being planned in the first place although Leave.Eu will tell you different.

Speaking of the Great Repeal Act. This is supposed to be started in May. This would give it less than two years to be ready before we left the EU. Yet it has a load of hurdles to leap in its sheer complexity, and there is a real danger this will not be long enough. If not done correctly it has the potential to mean the legal system would “fall over”. This is basically the legal equivalent of when you mean yourself in a time travelling sci-fi creating a paradox which threatens the very existence of time itself.

A127. Another treaty, another challenge? Possibly, but maybe only a way to bargain for the EEA rather than something more. But it just shows the legal headache Brexit is. We still could end up in the ECJ on any number of other issues – not just a50. You know this legal headache the government is ignoring by having no lawyer in the Brexit Cabinet, and UKIP are just plan delusional about.

Anyway UKIP have a new leader. Paul Nuttalls. (sic – see Stuart Lee). He wants to privatise the NHS though he denies having said it either on camera or on his blog. Everytime anyone says ‘Paul Nuttalls to you, remember to say ‘Oh the one who wants to privatise the NHS?’ Just to make sure everyone is away that he wants to privatise the NHS. Repeat Ad nauseam. Hell this is what Labour are going to be doing, as they are bloody terrified. Why? Simple. He will, of course, be hugely popular despite this cos he’s got the right accent and says the ‘right things’. By ‘right things’ I mean cos he spouts utter bollocks. Which probably means he’s also electable seeing as utter bollocks is now political currency. Plus Labour are rather lacking in any policies, so utter bollocks policies easily fill the void.

Talking of utter bollocks, I haven’t mentioned Trump yet. The Greens have requested a recount and are supported by the Democrats, though they say they haven’t found anything dubious themselves yet. Trump says it’s a scam. Goebbels once said when telling the Big Lie accuse your opposition of what you are guilty of yourself, so I'm not betting either way given that is the political strategy Trump has employed with gusto. I dread to think of the mess that would cause if the recount came out in favour of Clinton.

So another couple of fun weeks on the cards, which will have you reaching for the gin and wondering if there is anyone left alive who actually gives a toss about what happens to real people and isn’t prepared to commit economic and democratic suicide.

Only another month to go before the 2016 Repeal Act comes into force. 2017 looks smashing.
Shamelessly stolen from David Allen Green

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Castelnaumansions · 09/12/2016 07:36

Sleaford and North Hykeham byelection results
Caroline Johnson (Cons) 17,570 (53.51%, -2.68%)
Victoria Ayling (Ukip) 4,426 (13.48%, -2.21%)
Ross Pepper (Lib Dem) 3,606 (10.98%, +5.33%)
Jim Clarke (Lab) 3,363 (10.24%, -7.02%)
Marianne Overton (Lincs Ind) 2,892 (8.81%, +3.59%)
So cheering that the Ukips are down 2.2% to libs +5.5%. Wonder when the Jezza starts to listen or hear? Internal wars between the People's from of Judea' and Judean People's Front isn't going to win any elections.

Castelnaumansions · 09/12/2016 07:37

'People's Front of Judea' whoops.

merrymouse · 09/12/2016 07:53

ISIS did not spring up from conditions in Syria. ISIS sprang up from the philosophy of jihad, which is as old as Islam.

ISIS did not arise purely from the philosophy of jihad any more than Hitler's rise to power was enabled purely by the persuasiveness of Nazi theory. Other factors need to be present to enable ISIS to operate and radicalise ordinary people. The opportunity in this case was a civil uprising in Syria. America might have influenced the Arab Spring, but they didn't mastermind it or control it.

You you still seem to have no idea of how peace can be maintained in Syria by Russia or Iran or anyone else. I don't blame you for this because nobody does. (Unless they think that Chechnya is a good model for government and that somebody like Ramzan Kadyrov in Chechnya is a good thing and that Putin will be able to control any puppet leader he installs indefinitely, and that the influence of any anti-Assad political organisations in exile and the wishes of the Syrian population can be dealt with in some unspecified, unpleasant way). However, from your posts, you don't seem to accept that this will be a continuing problem.

I am happy to believe that you are right about an excess of anti Russian propaganda in America - I wouldn't know. However, Putin is still a dictator guilty of human rights abuses who assassinated the opposition leader. Israel is clearly a factor in the middle east, but it isn't the only factor and trying to simplify the situation into a story about America being bad/stupid and Russia being misunderstood just doesn't work.

Here is Alex Younger, head of MI6 on the conflict in Syria yesterday:

“If you doubt the link between legitimacy and effective counter-terrorism, then – albeit negatively – the unfolding tragedy in Syria will, I fear, provide proof. I believe Russian conduct in Syria, allied with that of Assad’s discredited regime, will, if they do not change course, provide a tragic example of the perils of forfeiting legitimacy.

“In defining as a terrorist anyone who opposes a brutal government, they alienate precisely that group that has to be on side if the extremists are to be defeated.”

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/dec/08/hostile-states-pose-fundamental-threat-to-europe-says-mi6-chief

You can write off what he says as propaganda or sour grapes, but I think it is true. If he can't convince you that the situation is complicated and without an easy solution, I'm not going to have much chance. I think this discussion about Syria is turning into a bit of a derail, so I think we will have to agree to differ.

RedToothBrush · 09/12/2016 08:00

The reporting on sleaford result is doing my head in. Labour's vote apparently 'collasped'. Er no. In an area where there was little hope of defeating conservatives labour voters didn't turn out but that turnout was more or less in line with the percentage drop in actual votes (not percentages) compared to the conservatives. Ukip didn't perform a.great deal better. Ukip plus con accounts for 63% of the vote. The EU ref was 62% in the area (but boundaries slightly different). It's very difficult to say then that there was any kind of EU ref backlash against brexit being too slow. Which is really what ukip wanted to achieve or demonstrate.

I do think the ld vote is the only one of any particular note. There was no real chance of winning here. It's heavily leave and turnout low. But they got more votes than at the general election?! They are motivated and someone managed to get voters out. They might have got every ge voter out plus some who didn't vote but that seems unlikely. Much more likely there has been lots of switchers but you can't really tell who from.

Everyone else could just have had varying degrees of turnout damage.

Of course at a ge the effect might not be replicated as turnout in the other parties goes 'back to normal' and the lds don't pick up any more votes.

But I would say that the idea of huge swings for ukip everywhere seems unrealistic as motivation questionable. Yes it might well happen in places where the demographic fits them better particularly in north and Midlands and if a labour vote is particularly depressed /close to ukip. But against ConKip? No chance.

If I was a conservative in a form lib dem area or remain area though, I would not want a ge before the end if march.

Yes labour do have an issue from looking at the sleaford result but I would say that it's over stated. Labour were not campaigning hard at this by election (unlike ukip) and it was never any kind of target nor did their voters have any other particular point or grievance to make. With that in mind their lack of performance is being massively over stated.

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Castelnaumansions · 09/12/2016 08:17

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p04kn6vc
But labour really is tearing itself apart, right now, with the old fights between Trots and Stalinists, this Daily Politics clip doesn't have the interview with Paul Mason which is quite revealing. If an SDP type part is to be formed, they better do it quickly.
I hear you that the labour vote held up well in Sleaford, Red and it was never going to be a labour win in a million years. But because I don't want to have to deal with momentum bullying in my local labour party; they've been trying to usurp various roles, I am not canvassing tomorrow. This is the story all over the country, with many labour MPs torn between fear of the UKIP/leave vote and momentum( which is even showing signs of splitting) in their constituencies. It's madness, but might be an opportunity of libs, but they're not going to win back Scotland.

lalalonglegs · 09/12/2016 08:35

The Labour Party's troubles are tragic but so self-inflicted: after months of denying that Momentum was being infiltrated by the hard left, its founder is now being forced out by the hard left Hmm. The party wallah they put up on Question Time last night was feeble.

RedToothBrush · 09/12/2016 08:37

To be honest sleaford result incredibly unremarkable and probably exactly what you would expect. Especially for a by-election.

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Peregrina · 09/12/2016 09:33

Especially for a by-election.
Especially since the adjacent area was Maggie Thatcher Central.

merrymouse · 09/12/2016 10:39

I'm not sure what labour would do if they had to fight a byelection in my current constituency. They would have lost their deposit in all recent elections elections if the threshold were still 12.5%. I vote labour just to encourage them to keep putting forward a candidate. I'd switch to conservative if UKIP were a real threat, but so far they haven't been.

What is the best strategy in a high profile by election in which you have absolutely no chance?

Clearly they have done worse than UKIP in Sleaford, but was there a better strategy than not really trying?

merrymouse · 09/12/2016 10:42

Maybe atleast if you try, you take the opportunity to look professional and raise your profile, but is it worse to try and then lose badly?

RedToothBrush · 09/12/2016 10:43

Anyone fancy a job as Head of Communications for the Department for Exiting the European Union?

£64,000 - £117,800 per year.

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merrymouse · 09/12/2016 10:45

No, but I would love it if the team behind twenty twelve and W1A gave their take on this new organisation!

merrymouse · 09/12/2016 10:49

This is clearly the person for the job.

Westministenders. For God sake Boris, is that the best plan you can come up with?
Castelnaumansions · 09/12/2016 17:16

Comrade Osborne on People's Judean Front.
George Osborne@George_Osborne
The disintegration of the Labour Party is not good for democracy. Oppositions are meant to try to win by-elections, not slip from 2nd to 4th

Sol1dGoldCunt · 11/12/2016 07:11

That job seems hideously underpaid all things considering!

Figmentofmyimagination · 12/12/2016 09:06

Does it come with a shoe-in to an investment bank or a handful of multinational board positions at the end?

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