Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

Westministenders. For God sake Boris, is that the best plan you can come up with?

967 replies

RedToothBrush · 30/11/2016 10:25

Its now five months from the referendum. Plans for leaving should be well advanced by now. Shouldn't they? We should have got past this ridiculous idea that we can have our cake and eat it. Yet the plan is a secret, well apart from when the EU leak things to the press or junior ministers let their underlings carry their notes for them.

A photo taken this week outside Downing Street, suggests that the ‘Have Cake And Eat It’ Plan really is seriously being considered by the government. This plan is 'clear' it has been spelt out many times by the government and yet no one has a fucking clue what it is apart from a car crash of utter nonsense, wishful thinking and fingers in the ears. Its so clear that Theresa May has admitted she is losing sleep over it, and has faith that God will steer us through via her moral compass (which I suspect to have been left on top of a rather large electro-magnet given her track record so far)

Still this, however, seems to be better than the ‘Fuck You’ Plan (or should that be 'Fuck EU') that is official UKIP policy and is to ignore a50 and leave the EU unilaterally. And possibly illegally, so no one will ever want to make an international agreement with the UK.

And this, is still at least better than ‘We Have No’ Plan that Labour have.

Other suggested plans are:
The ‘Lets Leave the UK and Screw Ourselves Another Way’ Plan as supported by the SNP which the majority of Scots seem to be against
The Welsh are quietly cultivating the ‘Shh Nobody Mention We Voted Leave But Are Now Going to be Difficult’ Plan as they suddenly realise they are about to be shafted financially and might lose the Welsh Assembly in the process.
NI might still go down the ‘Lets Unify Ireland and Start Another Chapter in Violence’ Plan though, the alternative might well be the ‘Lets Stay in the Union and Start Another Chapter in Violence’ Plan anyway, so they are screwed due to the immense thoughtfulness of the English.
Meanwhile the Lib Dems are all about the ‘Lets Just Not Do This and Instead Risk a Revolt’ Plan.

If anyone does actually have a coherent plan, then there are lots of parties who would love to hear from you.

Lets be honest about the secrecy though. Its not about the EU knowing our plans. They already know what all our options are, or more to the point, aren't. The government want to keep it out of parliament because they want to control it, and because they don't want the press to know. They do not want transparency, as they are so weak and so fearful that they will be shown up for what they are, even when there is no opposition.

So we are screwed. Unless somehow someone comes to their senses and puts it to the EU that a50 isn’t fit for purpose and that a new treaty must be done to respect the democratic will of the people and the EU let us go down that route (Hey didn’t I say that months ago?).

Tomorrow we have the completely pointless and costly vanity by-election for Zac Goldsmith. The referendum about Heathrow and not at all about Brexit. Latest betting 2/7 on Goldsmith and 5/2 on the Lib Dems. I think Goldsmith with his good looks will just sneak it, unless turnout is really low. But it will be close.

Sunday we have the Italian Referendum, which some have suggested would the Italian Bank Melt Down (and start of a new Eurozone Crisis) though many here say this fear is massively over stated through Brexit tinted spectacles. Sunday also sees the Austria Presidential Election Re-run with the Far Right Candidate currently looking like he has the slight edge.

A50. The Supreme Court case starts next week. Scotland say they have a veto. Wales say they are worried about the Devolution Problem. NI still might have their defeat in the High Court overturned and there is the Good Friday agreement. The Supreme Court might insist that the Great Repeal Act might need to be passed before we can invoke a50. And the plan if the government lose is merely a 3 line Bill which they want to rush through in 5 days no one would dare defy. Well except the Lib Dems are already saying they want amendments to ensure parliamentary scrutiny and what is the point of the Lords if they don't. So there is a fair old chance that if the government loses given the wider scope of the Supreme Court Case, a 3 line bill simply won’t cover everything it needs to.

We still don’t know if the ECJ might get involved. It seems the Republic of Ireland, might have a say in that too. An ECJ referral would mean a 4 to 8 month delay, even with the sensitivity and the importance of the case.

Don’t forget if you were planning on going/worried about it the 100,000 March on the Supreme Court is off. Due to not being planned in the first place although Leave.Eu will tell you different.

Speaking of the Great Repeal Act. This is supposed to be started in May. This would give it less than two years to be ready before we left the EU. Yet it has a load of hurdles to leap in its sheer complexity, and there is a real danger this will not be long enough. If not done correctly it has the potential to mean the legal system would “fall over”. This is basically the legal equivalent of when you mean yourself in a time travelling sci-fi creating a paradox which threatens the very existence of time itself.

A127. Another treaty, another challenge? Possibly, but maybe only a way to bargain for the EEA rather than something more. But it just shows the legal headache Brexit is. We still could end up in the ECJ on any number of other issues – not just a50. You know this legal headache the government is ignoring by having no lawyer in the Brexit Cabinet, and UKIP are just plan delusional about.

Anyway UKIP have a new leader. Paul Nuttalls. (sic – see Stuart Lee). He wants to privatise the NHS though he denies having said it either on camera or on his blog. Everytime anyone says ‘Paul Nuttalls to you, remember to say ‘Oh the one who wants to privatise the NHS?’ Just to make sure everyone is away that he wants to privatise the NHS. Repeat Ad nauseam. Hell this is what Labour are going to be doing, as they are bloody terrified. Why? Simple. He will, of course, be hugely popular despite this cos he’s got the right accent and says the ‘right things’. By ‘right things’ I mean cos he spouts utter bollocks. Which probably means he’s also electable seeing as utter bollocks is now political currency. Plus Labour are rather lacking in any policies, so utter bollocks policies easily fill the void.

Talking of utter bollocks, I haven’t mentioned Trump yet. The Greens have requested a recount and are supported by the Democrats, though they say they haven’t found anything dubious themselves yet. Trump says it’s a scam. Goebbels once said when telling the Big Lie accuse your opposition of what you are guilty of yourself, so I'm not betting either way given that is the political strategy Trump has employed with gusto. I dread to think of the mess that would cause if the recount came out in favour of Clinton.

So another couple of fun weeks on the cards, which will have you reaching for the gin and wondering if there is anyone left alive who actually gives a toss about what happens to real people and isn’t prepared to commit economic and democratic suicide.

Only another month to go before the 2016 Repeal Act comes into force. 2017 looks smashing.
Shamelessly stolen from David Allen Green

OP posts:
Thread gallery
17
SapphireStrange · 01/12/2016 11:32
MitzyLeFrouf · 01/12/2016 11:35

Except we'd have no say in any EU laws and regulations ...

Exactly! Similar costs but far fewer benefits.

Peregrina · 01/12/2016 11:35

So David Davis has said they’d consider paying EU budget contributions in exchange for single market access. Hmmm, sounds remarkably like EU membership…….

Or which is an EEA option, and as we have found, we are already members of that, so Norway can't say Nej to us, and supporting the single market was also the Tory party manifesto. Which they can argue that they have a mandate for.

Oh dear, oh dear. I think Theresa May needs to do a bit more praying to get herself out of the muddle she has chosen to land herself with.

TuckersBadLuck · 01/12/2016 11:36

That's it maizie! We need to rebuild the Empire! Let's not stop at rolling the clock back to the 1970s, let's go all the way back to 1900. Rule Britannia I say!

Peregrina · 01/12/2016 11:37

Some of the Brexiters would like to rebuild the Empire. The trouble is, the countries of the old Empire are no longer interested.

MariePoppins · 01/12/2016 11:49

I dont think some Brexiters want the Empire back. I think a lot of British people havent realised yet that there is NO empire anymore....

So... are we going for a soft Brexit then, all the advantages of the common market but .... none of the advantages of the EU and a lot more inconveniences (as Norway kept saying but no one listened to them either)

TuckersBadLuck · 01/12/2016 11:57

Except that we've got a red line on FOM, which Switzerland and Norway haven't been allowed...

prettybird · 01/12/2016 12:10

Ummm - not true. Norway does allow FoM (it has to as part of the Schengen area) and Switzerland was having problems because it did vote to try to restrict FoM - and as a result was having access to certain of its benefits restricted - so backed down.

fullfact.org/europe/norway-switzerland-eu-laws/
www.theguardian.com/world/2016/sep/22/switzerland-votes-for-compromise-to-preserve-relations-with-eu

SapphireStrange · 01/12/2016 12:12

pretty, I think Tuckers meant they weren't allowed a red line on FOM, but Theresa May is trying for a UK red line on it.

Peregrina · 01/12/2016 12:14

Norway allowing FoM is what Tucker was saying, I think.

A while back a number of Leavers were going on about Switzerland and the EU thinking that the EU would blink first. Seems like they didn't, but where are those Leavers now? Very silent for some reason.

Peregrina · 01/12/2016 12:17

TM might just get her red line on FoM from the EU - to be replaced by immigrants from elsewhere, probably with black and brown skins in addition. Wonder how that is going to go down with those Leave voters who don't want immigration?

shapesandshades · 01/12/2016 12:26

..

whatwouldrondo · 01/12/2016 12:40

To be fair I think a lot of Brexit voters will be happy if we stay in the single market, saying we could do so swung the vote for the Leave campaign. And they will think they got their sovereignty and control back. No matter we are bound by EU regulation with no say, the important thing is they think they have got control back, are freed from the shackles of that giant arrogant bureaucracy and the evil Junker, and we can control our borders and stop all those marauding evil criminals coming here. Perhaps they will eat some cake to celebrate Hmm

prettybird · 01/12/2016 13:08

Sorry - I did indeed misinterpret what Tucker meant Blush

Anyway, it's still useful to have those links about Norway and Switzerland's relationship with the EU Grin

woman12345 · 01/12/2016 17:45

www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/dec/01/comparing-fascism-donald-trump-historians-trumpism
Good article on what it is and how to fix it.

3amEternal · 01/12/2016 19:51

What is going on in Teresa May's head? Figs have come out today on the front pages saying immigration has been higher than ever under her watch as home sec. it's like she's erased the fact she was part of the last government. She could've opted for a nice soft Brexit in the first place but instead chose to dig herself into this hole she can't climb out of...

winterisnigh · 01/12/2016 20:54

why do people keep sighting Norway?
Norway is a different kettle of fish to us - and has no way near the the bargaining power that we do. It is of course useful to look at countries who left but we are nothing like Norway at all.

To be fair I think most leave voters want to be rid of the EU as much as we can be and yes FOM is a red line. We don't want to think anything we want to be actually out of this mess - this chaotic catastrophic hideous mess called the EU.
We can hold its hand when it needs us - we can send our men and women to prop up its dodgy and poor defenses, we can even help with its woeful security and assist with all sorts of things it cant do on its own, but other than being a friendly and relatively helpful neighbor we dont want to be part of its club. Financially, socially and politically.

winterisnigh · 01/12/2016 20:55

There is no nice soft brexit.

There is no nice soft Eu.

Melassa · 01/12/2016 21:10

The UK has negligeable bargaining power. Most of the UK's exports and investment opportunities depend on being in the EU. There is no longer an Empire, and most ex empire countries aren't that keen on doing trade with the UK, unless there is a significant benefit for them (see visas for Indians in exchange for Indian trade). No one wants to trade with the UK on the current terms proposed.

People keep citing Norway because it's essentially what DDavis is proposing. All the cost for limited benefit. Still, all least you'll get your blue passports back, eh?

Melassa · 01/12/2016 21:13

I strongly suspect T May's lost it. Frustratingly unable to find a solution that doesn't involve Johnny Forriner coming and going as he pleases. She's beginning to remind me of Cruella Deville.

BoredofBrexit · 01/12/2016 21:13

Melassa really?
You need to read around the subject more.

Mistigri · 01/12/2016 21:17

It is of course useful to look at countries who left

I presume you mean Greenland not Norway? Norway has never been in the EU.

Greenland was in the EU then left, but it is not an independent state so it's not really comparable.

Mistigri · 01/12/2016 21:20

People keep citing Norway because it's essentially what DDavis is proposing.

I'm not sure it is. He's talking about paying to access the single market (so far, so EEA) but not about freedom of movement (an essential part of any EEA agreemenr). I'm not sure why the markets got so excited about it, because it strikes me that what Davis wants may not even be on offer.

Kaija · 01/12/2016 21:21

Why do people keep citing Norway? Well Farage was doing it a year ago to persuade people there was a viable model for exiting the EU. He seems to have changed his mind. Why people are doing it now is I guess because it's starting to look like the least worst of our rapidly decreasing options (if indeed it is an option).

Melassa · 01/12/2016 21:22

Also, coming back to the EU is about to implode because everyone's gagging to get out. I live and work in continental Europe, read newspapers in 3 languages and, as others have already mentioned, only in the UK is this trotted out. Satisfaction with the EU within the other 27 countries has actually gone up. Most sane people in the EU 27 have seen what's gone on in the UK and collectively shuddered at the sheer lunacy and the economic repercussions. Only the loony fringes in a handful of countries applaud Brexit, and most of those like the UKIP are peopled by louts with not a lot between the ears, so wouldn't have the wherewithal to bring their country out without total chaos ensuing.