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Brexit

Westministenders. For God sake Boris, is that the best plan you can come up with?

967 replies

RedToothBrush · 30/11/2016 10:25

Its now five months from the referendum. Plans for leaving should be well advanced by now. Shouldn't they? We should have got past this ridiculous idea that we can have our cake and eat it. Yet the plan is a secret, well apart from when the EU leak things to the press or junior ministers let their underlings carry their notes for them.

A photo taken this week outside Downing Street, suggests that the ‘Have Cake And Eat It’ Plan really is seriously being considered by the government. This plan is 'clear' it has been spelt out many times by the government and yet no one has a fucking clue what it is apart from a car crash of utter nonsense, wishful thinking and fingers in the ears. Its so clear that Theresa May has admitted she is losing sleep over it, and has faith that God will steer us through via her moral compass (which I suspect to have been left on top of a rather large electro-magnet given her track record so far)

Still this, however, seems to be better than the ‘Fuck You’ Plan (or should that be 'Fuck EU') that is official UKIP policy and is to ignore a50 and leave the EU unilaterally. And possibly illegally, so no one will ever want to make an international agreement with the UK.

And this, is still at least better than ‘We Have No’ Plan that Labour have.

Other suggested plans are:
The ‘Lets Leave the UK and Screw Ourselves Another Way’ Plan as supported by the SNP which the majority of Scots seem to be against
The Welsh are quietly cultivating the ‘Shh Nobody Mention We Voted Leave But Are Now Going to be Difficult’ Plan as they suddenly realise they are about to be shafted financially and might lose the Welsh Assembly in the process.
NI might still go down the ‘Lets Unify Ireland and Start Another Chapter in Violence’ Plan though, the alternative might well be the ‘Lets Stay in the Union and Start Another Chapter in Violence’ Plan anyway, so they are screwed due to the immense thoughtfulness of the English.
Meanwhile the Lib Dems are all about the ‘Lets Just Not Do This and Instead Risk a Revolt’ Plan.

If anyone does actually have a coherent plan, then there are lots of parties who would love to hear from you.

Lets be honest about the secrecy though. Its not about the EU knowing our plans. They already know what all our options are, or more to the point, aren't. The government want to keep it out of parliament because they want to control it, and because they don't want the press to know. They do not want transparency, as they are so weak and so fearful that they will be shown up for what they are, even when there is no opposition.

So we are screwed. Unless somehow someone comes to their senses and puts it to the EU that a50 isn’t fit for purpose and that a new treaty must be done to respect the democratic will of the people and the EU let us go down that route (Hey didn’t I say that months ago?).

Tomorrow we have the completely pointless and costly vanity by-election for Zac Goldsmith. The referendum about Heathrow and not at all about Brexit. Latest betting 2/7 on Goldsmith and 5/2 on the Lib Dems. I think Goldsmith with his good looks will just sneak it, unless turnout is really low. But it will be close.

Sunday we have the Italian Referendum, which some have suggested would the Italian Bank Melt Down (and start of a new Eurozone Crisis) though many here say this fear is massively over stated through Brexit tinted spectacles. Sunday also sees the Austria Presidential Election Re-run with the Far Right Candidate currently looking like he has the slight edge.

A50. The Supreme Court case starts next week. Scotland say they have a veto. Wales say they are worried about the Devolution Problem. NI still might have their defeat in the High Court overturned and there is the Good Friday agreement. The Supreme Court might insist that the Great Repeal Act might need to be passed before we can invoke a50. And the plan if the government lose is merely a 3 line Bill which they want to rush through in 5 days no one would dare defy. Well except the Lib Dems are already saying they want amendments to ensure parliamentary scrutiny and what is the point of the Lords if they don't. So there is a fair old chance that if the government loses given the wider scope of the Supreme Court Case, a 3 line bill simply won’t cover everything it needs to.

We still don’t know if the ECJ might get involved. It seems the Republic of Ireland, might have a say in that too. An ECJ referral would mean a 4 to 8 month delay, even with the sensitivity and the importance of the case.

Don’t forget if you were planning on going/worried about it the 100,000 March on the Supreme Court is off. Due to not being planned in the first place although Leave.Eu will tell you different.

Speaking of the Great Repeal Act. This is supposed to be started in May. This would give it less than two years to be ready before we left the EU. Yet it has a load of hurdles to leap in its sheer complexity, and there is a real danger this will not be long enough. If not done correctly it has the potential to mean the legal system would “fall over”. This is basically the legal equivalent of when you mean yourself in a time travelling sci-fi creating a paradox which threatens the very existence of time itself.

A127. Another treaty, another challenge? Possibly, but maybe only a way to bargain for the EEA rather than something more. But it just shows the legal headache Brexit is. We still could end up in the ECJ on any number of other issues – not just a50. You know this legal headache the government is ignoring by having no lawyer in the Brexit Cabinet, and UKIP are just plan delusional about.

Anyway UKIP have a new leader. Paul Nuttalls. (sic – see Stuart Lee). He wants to privatise the NHS though he denies having said it either on camera or on his blog. Everytime anyone says ‘Paul Nuttalls to you, remember to say ‘Oh the one who wants to privatise the NHS?’ Just to make sure everyone is away that he wants to privatise the NHS. Repeat Ad nauseam. Hell this is what Labour are going to be doing, as they are bloody terrified. Why? Simple. He will, of course, be hugely popular despite this cos he’s got the right accent and says the ‘right things’. By ‘right things’ I mean cos he spouts utter bollocks. Which probably means he’s also electable seeing as utter bollocks is now political currency. Plus Labour are rather lacking in any policies, so utter bollocks policies easily fill the void.

Talking of utter bollocks, I haven’t mentioned Trump yet. The Greens have requested a recount and are supported by the Democrats, though they say they haven’t found anything dubious themselves yet. Trump says it’s a scam. Goebbels once said when telling the Big Lie accuse your opposition of what you are guilty of yourself, so I'm not betting either way given that is the political strategy Trump has employed with gusto. I dread to think of the mess that would cause if the recount came out in favour of Clinton.

So another couple of fun weeks on the cards, which will have you reaching for the gin and wondering if there is anyone left alive who actually gives a toss about what happens to real people and isn’t prepared to commit economic and democratic suicide.

Only another month to go before the 2016 Repeal Act comes into force. 2017 looks smashing.
Shamelessly stolen from David Allen Green

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StripeyMonkey1 · 04/12/2016 21:04

That Daily Mail headline is shocking:

"Is Europe's Brexit revolution over? Gloating left-wing supporters wave 'Thank God' signs after far-right candidate LOSES Austrian presidential election which was set to deliver body blow to the EU"

Even worse are the comments.

The left have so often branded anyone slightly right of centre as "fas cists" and "n a zis" that people are bored with it and just ignore them now (2499 votes)

So anti-immigration is 'far right' according to the liberal hand wringers? They have a shock coming (2288 votes)

SwedishEdith · 04/12/2016 21:08

You may be right NotDavid. He was adamant he wouldn't stand in the summer because of worries about his family (he claimed). They won't have gone away.

Melassa · 04/12/2016 21:17

I reckon Brexit has put people off the Far Right as much as Trump. The people I spoke to and worked with in continental Europe were horrified at the antics, pre and post referendum. Even my Swiss colleagues were appalled. I think it is telling that the Greens won a larger chunk of the vote this time around and this could also bode well for the French elections.

Or maybe that's just wishful thinking.

lalalonglegs · 04/12/2016 21:25

Perhaps the success of the Greens in the Austrian election was simply because it was a re-run election and all the people who maybe made a protest vote in June or didn't vote at all, came to their senses this time round?

RedToothBrush · 04/12/2016 21:27

Europe Elects @EuropeElects
Italy: High turnout in the North, low turnout in the South. #Italy #italianreferendum #referendumcostituzionale #Referendum #Italia

Faisal Islam ‏@faisalislam
This trend is positive for Renzi, apparently. And it looks like the Italian flag:

Westministenders. For God sake Boris, is that the best plan you can come up with?
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Melassa · 04/12/2016 21:30

Perhaps, but the vote in June was partly based on the MENA immigration from the previous summer, which many Austrians were not happy about and the Freedom party capitalised on it. This time round that same issue has probably paled into relative unimportance in the face of a return to Nazism.

RedToothBrush · 04/12/2016 21:50

This guy is a slow tweeter. He's still going...

Antonello Guerrera ‏@antoguerrera
11. But Italy voting day was plagued by something bad: a conspiracy post by a famous rocker sparked outrage. I'm explaining that shortly
12. Rocker Piero Pelù posted on Facebook that his vote might be rigged because of a "erasable pencil" he had to use to vote.
13. That was just baseless nonsense because the pencil mark cannot be deleted from the ballot without a sign of it.
14. Anyway, this sparked much panic especially among M5S voters: its leader Grillo has often spoken of conspiracy theories on voting pencils
15. Eventually, after rocker Pelù's post went viral, Italy interior minister had to stress in a statement that it was nonsense
16. (Which is a clear sign of the post-truth time we are living in, but this is just my opinion. Let's go back to facts #referendum)

Sounds Brexitty again.

DH has also been telling me that his Italian friends have been saying that some people have not been able to vote because ballots were sent out too late. Sounds like another rumour to me, but again its all Brexitty / Trumpy too me.

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SwedishEdith · 04/12/2016 21:55

Oh, Christ, not the pencils again? Has Farage been interfering here as well?

RedToothBrush · 04/12/2016 22:00

Polls closed in Italy.

Exit polls imminent...

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lalalonglegs · 04/12/2016 22:04

"No" 54-58% of vote according to Corriere della Sera Sad

lalalonglegs · 04/12/2016 22:07

Rai (the national broadcaster) confirms that figure

RedToothBrush · 04/12/2016 22:08

Oh by the way, re: Hofer and the Cornflowers:

Andrew Neil ‏@afneil
You must be blocked (and you are).

governor @davidhorspool1
@afneil why do you keep blocking people, can't you just debate with them.

Bart ‏@bt12398 @afneil
You don't just block people who insult you. Several people have asked for your justification in calling Hofer "far right"

chris salmon @weighedin
@bt12398 @afneil For goodness sake just read up on the bloke he's as far right as you can get

Bart ‏@bt12398
@weighedin I did. Where is the part where he is far right? Tell me.

Andrew Neil ‏@afneil
His party has Nazi roots and even in 1990s still spoke fondly of Hitler.

Otto English ‏@Otto_English
@bt12398 @weighedin the bit where they were set up by an SS officer... who hated Jews.....?

Anyone still wanting to defend Hofer wearing one?

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RedToothBrush · 04/12/2016 22:09

Faisal Islam ‏@faisalislam
This exit poll says 56% No, 43% Yes ...

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SwedishEdith · 04/12/2016 22:12

Italian interviewed now on BBC voted No "because I don't like Renzi". Sounds familiar.

RedToothBrush · 04/12/2016 22:14

Antonello Guerrera ‏@antoguerrera
21. If exit polls are true, it might be the end of Renzi political career: defeat was expected, but not by such a clear margin

Tim Shipman ‏@ShippersUnbound
Renzi expected to resign. Pity. May got on well with him by all accounts. Lady Shippers liked him too...

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Castelnaumansions · 04/12/2016 22:14
Sad
Castelnaumansions · 04/12/2016 22:17

James Mates ‏@jamesmatesitv

If exit polls correct, it's 1 win 1 loss for forces of populism. But arguably they've lost symbolic vote while winning significant one.

RedToothBrush · 04/12/2016 22:21

Andrew Neil ‏@afneil
Big turnout was sadi to help Renzi. But it was 69% -- and it didn't ...

Andrew Neil ‏@afneil
Exit polls suggest Renzi has lost decisively. Size of defeat puts further pressure on him to resign.

Sam @SamW160
@afneil Not too well informed on Italian politics so not sure on their constitution but would an election follow his resignation?

Andrew Neil ‏@afneil
Not necessarily. The President might prevail on Renzi to unresign. Or pick somebody else to form technocratic government.

Jon Owen @Jon19861
@afneil what does this mean in simple terms for Europe Andrew?

Andrew Neil ‏@afneil
In simple terms? It's VERY complicated.

I guess its good for the pound...

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RedToothBrush · 04/12/2016 22:26

Stephen Bush ‏@stephenkb
I really wouldn't see Italy's No vote as a Trump-Brexit thing. If it must have a UK analogue, it's like if Clegg'd made AV a confidence vote

Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB
That sounds about right

So I have no idea what to make of the Italian ref result now. I do know how its being spun here but it also sounds a lot like there is more to it, which I know some on here have suggested.

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Castelnaumansions · 04/12/2016 22:26

Antonello Guerrera ‏@antoguerrera 3m3 minutes ago
27. * 2nd RAI exit poll even more catastrophic for PM Renzi: YES 40-44%, NO 56-60% *
very brexity

RedToothBrush · 04/12/2016 22:29

David Bloor @DavidBloor2
@afneil So the vote in Italy, good or bad for Merkel?

Andrew Neil ‏@afneil
VERY bad. Merkel had given up on Hollande and adopted Renzi as new her favourite son.

So both May and Merkel liked and got on with Renzi...

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Castelnaumansions · 04/12/2016 22:29

I only know the winning side included a comedian on a mo ped and our friends from the right.

Castelnaumansions · 04/12/2016 22:32

but...........
Andrew Neil ‏@afneil

Long way, so far, from either.Andrew Neil added,
Mick Barrett @Mickjanxxx
@afneil The end of Italy in the EU and the end of the Euro for Italy??

Motheroffourdragons · 04/12/2016 22:33

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

SwedishEdith · 04/12/2016 22:33

Doesn't Italy have a new PM every 2 or 3 years?

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