Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

Westministenders. For God sake Boris, is that the best plan you can come up with?

967 replies

RedToothBrush · 30/11/2016 10:25

Its now five months from the referendum. Plans for leaving should be well advanced by now. Shouldn't they? We should have got past this ridiculous idea that we can have our cake and eat it. Yet the plan is a secret, well apart from when the EU leak things to the press or junior ministers let their underlings carry their notes for them.

A photo taken this week outside Downing Street, suggests that the ‘Have Cake And Eat It’ Plan really is seriously being considered by the government. This plan is 'clear' it has been spelt out many times by the government and yet no one has a fucking clue what it is apart from a car crash of utter nonsense, wishful thinking and fingers in the ears. Its so clear that Theresa May has admitted she is losing sleep over it, and has faith that God will steer us through via her moral compass (which I suspect to have been left on top of a rather large electro-magnet given her track record so far)

Still this, however, seems to be better than the ‘Fuck You’ Plan (or should that be 'Fuck EU') that is official UKIP policy and is to ignore a50 and leave the EU unilaterally. And possibly illegally, so no one will ever want to make an international agreement with the UK.

And this, is still at least better than ‘We Have No’ Plan that Labour have.

Other suggested plans are:
The ‘Lets Leave the UK and Screw Ourselves Another Way’ Plan as supported by the SNP which the majority of Scots seem to be against
The Welsh are quietly cultivating the ‘Shh Nobody Mention We Voted Leave But Are Now Going to be Difficult’ Plan as they suddenly realise they are about to be shafted financially and might lose the Welsh Assembly in the process.
NI might still go down the ‘Lets Unify Ireland and Start Another Chapter in Violence’ Plan though, the alternative might well be the ‘Lets Stay in the Union and Start Another Chapter in Violence’ Plan anyway, so they are screwed due to the immense thoughtfulness of the English.
Meanwhile the Lib Dems are all about the ‘Lets Just Not Do This and Instead Risk a Revolt’ Plan.

If anyone does actually have a coherent plan, then there are lots of parties who would love to hear from you.

Lets be honest about the secrecy though. Its not about the EU knowing our plans. They already know what all our options are, or more to the point, aren't. The government want to keep it out of parliament because they want to control it, and because they don't want the press to know. They do not want transparency, as they are so weak and so fearful that they will be shown up for what they are, even when there is no opposition.

So we are screwed. Unless somehow someone comes to their senses and puts it to the EU that a50 isn’t fit for purpose and that a new treaty must be done to respect the democratic will of the people and the EU let us go down that route (Hey didn’t I say that months ago?).

Tomorrow we have the completely pointless and costly vanity by-election for Zac Goldsmith. The referendum about Heathrow and not at all about Brexit. Latest betting 2/7 on Goldsmith and 5/2 on the Lib Dems. I think Goldsmith with his good looks will just sneak it, unless turnout is really low. But it will be close.

Sunday we have the Italian Referendum, which some have suggested would the Italian Bank Melt Down (and start of a new Eurozone Crisis) though many here say this fear is massively over stated through Brexit tinted spectacles. Sunday also sees the Austria Presidential Election Re-run with the Far Right Candidate currently looking like he has the slight edge.

A50. The Supreme Court case starts next week. Scotland say they have a veto. Wales say they are worried about the Devolution Problem. NI still might have their defeat in the High Court overturned and there is the Good Friday agreement. The Supreme Court might insist that the Great Repeal Act might need to be passed before we can invoke a50. And the plan if the government lose is merely a 3 line Bill which they want to rush through in 5 days no one would dare defy. Well except the Lib Dems are already saying they want amendments to ensure parliamentary scrutiny and what is the point of the Lords if they don't. So there is a fair old chance that if the government loses given the wider scope of the Supreme Court Case, a 3 line bill simply won’t cover everything it needs to.

We still don’t know if the ECJ might get involved. It seems the Republic of Ireland, might have a say in that too. An ECJ referral would mean a 4 to 8 month delay, even with the sensitivity and the importance of the case.

Don’t forget if you were planning on going/worried about it the 100,000 March on the Supreme Court is off. Due to not being planned in the first place although Leave.Eu will tell you different.

Speaking of the Great Repeal Act. This is supposed to be started in May. This would give it less than two years to be ready before we left the EU. Yet it has a load of hurdles to leap in its sheer complexity, and there is a real danger this will not be long enough. If not done correctly it has the potential to mean the legal system would “fall over”. This is basically the legal equivalent of when you mean yourself in a time travelling sci-fi creating a paradox which threatens the very existence of time itself.

A127. Another treaty, another challenge? Possibly, but maybe only a way to bargain for the EEA rather than something more. But it just shows the legal headache Brexit is. We still could end up in the ECJ on any number of other issues – not just a50. You know this legal headache the government is ignoring by having no lawyer in the Brexit Cabinet, and UKIP are just plan delusional about.

Anyway UKIP have a new leader. Paul Nuttalls. (sic – see Stuart Lee). He wants to privatise the NHS though he denies having said it either on camera or on his blog. Everytime anyone says ‘Paul Nuttalls to you, remember to say ‘Oh the one who wants to privatise the NHS?’ Just to make sure everyone is away that he wants to privatise the NHS. Repeat Ad nauseam. Hell this is what Labour are going to be doing, as they are bloody terrified. Why? Simple. He will, of course, be hugely popular despite this cos he’s got the right accent and says the ‘right things’. By ‘right things’ I mean cos he spouts utter bollocks. Which probably means he’s also electable seeing as utter bollocks is now political currency. Plus Labour are rather lacking in any policies, so utter bollocks policies easily fill the void.

Talking of utter bollocks, I haven’t mentioned Trump yet. The Greens have requested a recount and are supported by the Democrats, though they say they haven’t found anything dubious themselves yet. Trump says it’s a scam. Goebbels once said when telling the Big Lie accuse your opposition of what you are guilty of yourself, so I'm not betting either way given that is the political strategy Trump has employed with gusto. I dread to think of the mess that would cause if the recount came out in favour of Clinton.

So another couple of fun weeks on the cards, which will have you reaching for the gin and wondering if there is anyone left alive who actually gives a toss about what happens to real people and isn’t prepared to commit economic and democratic suicide.

Only another month to go before the 2016 Repeal Act comes into force. 2017 looks smashing.
Shamelessly stolen from David Allen Green

OP posts:
Thread gallery
17
merrymouse · 04/12/2016 11:20

Fake news.

The bottom line is it makes money.

According to this, however, you can make more money out of pro Trump fake news.

BigChocFrenzy · 04/12/2016 11:23

The false equivalence / equal time is mainly driven by pressure from the hard right:

Nearly all the anti-science is coming from them, either because science doesn't fit with what the Bible says, or because believing the science would mean more role for the State, such as restrictions on business and profit, or encouraging mass vaccinations.

Sufficient political power can mean school curricula are changed. e.g. in some US states: "Intelligent Design" and abstinence only teaching

merrymouse · 04/12/2016 11:31

I don't know. I think alot of the time on the Today programme or Jeremy Vine it's just that debate is more interesting than agreement and they have to produce hours of content every day.

They have space to fill and plenty of professional trolls and people of questionable intelligence/values eager to fill it.

howabout · 04/12/2016 11:33

I think the bbc has a problem with programmes like QT atm. Remain sentiment is by far and away the majority position of Parliamentarians and their ilk. However that does not reflect the sentiment of voters. Having a panel lecturing the audience on the error of its ways only serves to highlight the disconnect.

There also seems to be less and less willingness among influential politicians to appear on open audience format shows.

NotDavidTennant · 04/12/2016 11:38

The BBC are obligated to give "due impartiality" to coverage of political subjects. Interpreting that obligation in the most cautious and arse-covering way possible is what leads to "false balance".

merrymouse · 04/12/2016 11:53

Oops - I meant to link to this podcast on my post above about fake news!

www.npr.org/sections/money/2016/12/02/504155809/episode-739-finding-the-fake-news-king

merrymouse · 04/12/2016 12:19

And a 2011 Infinite Monkey Cage podcast on science reporting and balance.
itunes.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-infinite-monkey-cage/id343580439?mt=2&i=108025340

merrymouse · 04/12/2016 12:35

There also seems to be less and less willingness among influential politicians to appear on open audience format shows

Politicians who actually bother to turn up in parliament and deal with parliamentary matters probably have rather less time on their hands than Farage, partucularly, you would imagine, at the moment.

Castelnaumansions · 04/12/2016 13:56

Sorry, away house cleaning! NotDavidTennant
Lead stories often seem to be that the economy is doing brilliantly despite brexit and naming child attackers. Today, even on Sunday Politics, London, they reported that tourism is doing brilliantly in London because of the low euro rate. In fact, many tourists are staying away and hotel rooms are empty. I've seen some great bargains.
The 'Today' programme and Newsnight are not the in depth fearless news programmes they were pre David Kelly and Jimmy Saville enquiry.
Does any one here get their news from BBCtv or PM or Today programme?
It just doesn't feel like it has the integrity of a public service broadcaster.

RedToothBrush · 04/12/2016 13:58

Question Time is entertainment masquerading as proper political debate.

Therein lies the problem. Its every bit 'sensationalist' as tabloid journalism, merely because it doesn't do the boring bit of being representative and instead likes to a verbal scrap.

OP posts:
Mistigri · 04/12/2016 14:10

Re standards of journalism, particularly TV journalism. You won't notice how bad it has become unless you have a time machine, or unless you regularly watch foreign language TV. I am always shocked at the comparison between French TV news and the UK equivalent - if the French news wants a discussion of a technical subject they just find themselves a convenient expert to talk about it. If you present a technical or scientific subject factually there is no need to have "both sides" represented; presenting made-up garbage alongside real facts is not balance.

That's not to suggest that French TV is good (it's crap) but at least news programmes generally assume that people have something between their ears.

MangoMoon · 04/12/2016 15:42

Politicians who actually bother to turn up in parliament and deal with parliamentary matters probably have rather less time on their hands than Farage, partucularly, you would imagine, at the moment.

YY.

I'd like to think so, anyway!!

howabout · 04/12/2016 15:50

Politicians who actually bother to turn up in parliament and deal with parliamentary matters probably have rather less time on their hands than Farage, particularly, you would imagine, at the moment.

Agreed, except they seem to have endless amounts of time to appear in one to one interview formats and to provide Op ed pieces and interviews for the papers. Not to mention all the tittle tattling to the journalists TM is seeking to clamp down on.

Nothing but waffle from BJ, Clegg and Diane on the BBC today. Thought Sir Keir did a good job. Didn't watch Peston.

Unicornsarelovely · 04/12/2016 16:49

Some good news: the BBC are reporting that the far right presidential candidate in Austria has lost.

Castelnaumansions · 04/12/2016 16:53

woohoo! thanks unicorns!

Mistigri · 04/12/2016 16:53

You're quick unicorns! Green candidate is up about 6% with 70% of votes counted.

Castelnaumansions · 04/12/2016 16:53
Smile
RedToothBrush · 04/12/2016 16:56

BuzzFeed News ‏@BuzzFeedNews
BREAKING: Far-right candidate in Austria’s presidential election loses — a defeat for the global populist movement

OP posts:
Castelnaumansions · 04/12/2016 17:06

When the results were released shortly after polls closed on Sunday, Mr Van der Bellen had 53.5 per cent, while Mr Hofer had 46.4 per cent.
Increased lead for Greens, well done them!

Unicornsarelovely · 04/12/2016 17:06

I'd love to have been hovering all day poised for the result, but the breaking news notification flashed up. I'm glad Austria have stepped back from on their brink.

Gumpendorf · 04/12/2016 17:07

Hofer's campaign manager blaming the establishment (aka as the liberal elite) for their defeat.

It's becoming a well worn narrative.

Westministenders. For God sake Boris, is that the best plan you can come up with?
RedToothBrush · 04/12/2016 17:10

Paul Nuttalls of the UKIPs is not flavour of the month with the Daily Mail:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3997634/Ukip-leader-fake-CV-row-claims-holds-university-doctorate-history-vows-storm-Commons-standing-election.html
It's nothing to do with me! Ukip leader Paul Nuttall blames a 'press officer' for 'fake CV' claims he has a PhD and played for Tranmere Rovers
Paul Nuttall is accused offalsely claiming to hold a university doctorate
Online CV refers to 'PhD, History' from 'Liverpool Hope University' in 2004
LHUgivenuniversity status in 2005 and did not award PhDs until 2009
Previously backtracked over boasts about playing professional football

Mr Nuttall has indicated he will fight for a Commons seat next year when Andy Burnham quits in Leigh to run for Mayor of Manchester.He has vowed to re-direct Ukip's effort at tackling the Labour vote.

Leigh at last GE:
Lab - 24312 53.88%
Con - 10216 22%
UKIP - 8903 17%
LD - 2%
63% Leave

(2010 Lab 48% Con 20% Lib Dem 18% BNP 6% UKIP 3.5%)

Good luck with that Mr Nuttalls. You might make some ground, but if you manage to get a swing of Lib Dem proportions I'll be amazed. Especially since you are a Scouser and there is still a tribalism which will work against you on that front.

OP posts:
Castelnaumansions · 04/12/2016 17:11

For Italy: Polls will close at 11pm (10pm GMT), with the result expected soon after midnight.

squoosh · 04/12/2016 17:36

I was SO relieved to hear the news from Austria. I was fully expecting that Nazi Hofer to win.

SwedishEdith · 04/12/2016 17:52

God, I'm so pleased about that Austria vote. Feel quite emotional that there are enough Austrians who were clearly disgusted at this man. Apparently, the female split was 62/38 against him.

Nuttall saying he'll stand in Leigh - hmm. Burnham, of course, is a Scouser so not sure that'll be an impediment in itself. But Nuttall's not Burnham - that's his problem.