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Brexit

Westministenders. For God sake Boris, is that the best plan you can come up with?

967 replies

RedToothBrush · 30/11/2016 10:25

Its now five months from the referendum. Plans for leaving should be well advanced by now. Shouldn't they? We should have got past this ridiculous idea that we can have our cake and eat it. Yet the plan is a secret, well apart from when the EU leak things to the press or junior ministers let their underlings carry their notes for them.

A photo taken this week outside Downing Street, suggests that the ‘Have Cake And Eat It’ Plan really is seriously being considered by the government. This plan is 'clear' it has been spelt out many times by the government and yet no one has a fucking clue what it is apart from a car crash of utter nonsense, wishful thinking and fingers in the ears. Its so clear that Theresa May has admitted she is losing sleep over it, and has faith that God will steer us through via her moral compass (which I suspect to have been left on top of a rather large electro-magnet given her track record so far)

Still this, however, seems to be better than the ‘Fuck You’ Plan (or should that be 'Fuck EU') that is official UKIP policy and is to ignore a50 and leave the EU unilaterally. And possibly illegally, so no one will ever want to make an international agreement with the UK.

And this, is still at least better than ‘We Have No’ Plan that Labour have.

Other suggested plans are:
The ‘Lets Leave the UK and Screw Ourselves Another Way’ Plan as supported by the SNP which the majority of Scots seem to be against
The Welsh are quietly cultivating the ‘Shh Nobody Mention We Voted Leave But Are Now Going to be Difficult’ Plan as they suddenly realise they are about to be shafted financially and might lose the Welsh Assembly in the process.
NI might still go down the ‘Lets Unify Ireland and Start Another Chapter in Violence’ Plan though, the alternative might well be the ‘Lets Stay in the Union and Start Another Chapter in Violence’ Plan anyway, so they are screwed due to the immense thoughtfulness of the English.
Meanwhile the Lib Dems are all about the ‘Lets Just Not Do This and Instead Risk a Revolt’ Plan.

If anyone does actually have a coherent plan, then there are lots of parties who would love to hear from you.

Lets be honest about the secrecy though. Its not about the EU knowing our plans. They already know what all our options are, or more to the point, aren't. The government want to keep it out of parliament because they want to control it, and because they don't want the press to know. They do not want transparency, as they are so weak and so fearful that they will be shown up for what they are, even when there is no opposition.

So we are screwed. Unless somehow someone comes to their senses and puts it to the EU that a50 isn’t fit for purpose and that a new treaty must be done to respect the democratic will of the people and the EU let us go down that route (Hey didn’t I say that months ago?).

Tomorrow we have the completely pointless and costly vanity by-election for Zac Goldsmith. The referendum about Heathrow and not at all about Brexit. Latest betting 2/7 on Goldsmith and 5/2 on the Lib Dems. I think Goldsmith with his good looks will just sneak it, unless turnout is really low. But it will be close.

Sunday we have the Italian Referendum, which some have suggested would the Italian Bank Melt Down (and start of a new Eurozone Crisis) though many here say this fear is massively over stated through Brexit tinted spectacles. Sunday also sees the Austria Presidential Election Re-run with the Far Right Candidate currently looking like he has the slight edge.

A50. The Supreme Court case starts next week. Scotland say they have a veto. Wales say they are worried about the Devolution Problem. NI still might have their defeat in the High Court overturned and there is the Good Friday agreement. The Supreme Court might insist that the Great Repeal Act might need to be passed before we can invoke a50. And the plan if the government lose is merely a 3 line Bill which they want to rush through in 5 days no one would dare defy. Well except the Lib Dems are already saying they want amendments to ensure parliamentary scrutiny and what is the point of the Lords if they don't. So there is a fair old chance that if the government loses given the wider scope of the Supreme Court Case, a 3 line bill simply won’t cover everything it needs to.

We still don’t know if the ECJ might get involved. It seems the Republic of Ireland, might have a say in that too. An ECJ referral would mean a 4 to 8 month delay, even with the sensitivity and the importance of the case.

Don’t forget if you were planning on going/worried about it the 100,000 March on the Supreme Court is off. Due to not being planned in the first place although Leave.Eu will tell you different.

Speaking of the Great Repeal Act. This is supposed to be started in May. This would give it less than two years to be ready before we left the EU. Yet it has a load of hurdles to leap in its sheer complexity, and there is a real danger this will not be long enough. If not done correctly it has the potential to mean the legal system would “fall over”. This is basically the legal equivalent of when you mean yourself in a time travelling sci-fi creating a paradox which threatens the very existence of time itself.

A127. Another treaty, another challenge? Possibly, but maybe only a way to bargain for the EEA rather than something more. But it just shows the legal headache Brexit is. We still could end up in the ECJ on any number of other issues – not just a50. You know this legal headache the government is ignoring by having no lawyer in the Brexit Cabinet, and UKIP are just plan delusional about.

Anyway UKIP have a new leader. Paul Nuttalls. (sic – see Stuart Lee). He wants to privatise the NHS though he denies having said it either on camera or on his blog. Everytime anyone says ‘Paul Nuttalls to you, remember to say ‘Oh the one who wants to privatise the NHS?’ Just to make sure everyone is away that he wants to privatise the NHS. Repeat Ad nauseam. Hell this is what Labour are going to be doing, as they are bloody terrified. Why? Simple. He will, of course, be hugely popular despite this cos he’s got the right accent and says the ‘right things’. By ‘right things’ I mean cos he spouts utter bollocks. Which probably means he’s also electable seeing as utter bollocks is now political currency. Plus Labour are rather lacking in any policies, so utter bollocks policies easily fill the void.

Talking of utter bollocks, I haven’t mentioned Trump yet. The Greens have requested a recount and are supported by the Democrats, though they say they haven’t found anything dubious themselves yet. Trump says it’s a scam. Goebbels once said when telling the Big Lie accuse your opposition of what you are guilty of yourself, so I'm not betting either way given that is the political strategy Trump has employed with gusto. I dread to think of the mess that would cause if the recount came out in favour of Clinton.

So another couple of fun weeks on the cards, which will have you reaching for the gin and wondering if there is anyone left alive who actually gives a toss about what happens to real people and isn’t prepared to commit economic and democratic suicide.

Only another month to go before the 2016 Repeal Act comes into force. 2017 looks smashing.
Shamelessly stolen from David Allen Green

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merrymouse · 02/12/2016 19:29

Re: deprivation in Richmond Park , I think the Cambridge estate is just outside the Kingston part of constituency by a couple of streets. However, there are certainly large blocks of social housing in the Canbury ward.

More than anything, I think the area is defined by education. I can think of only a handful of people I have met as adults who were born there.

merrymouse · 02/12/2016 20:22

Ben Goldsmith's tweets about Sarah Olney are really nasty.

I suspect being a working mother and living in a semi does sound boring if you were born with a trust fund. It rather undermines Zac's attempts to claim that he isn't a racist bigot and was just misunderstood in the mayoral election.

Castelnaumansions · 02/12/2016 20:36

"In a Brexit tantrum Richmond has replaced its inspired MP with an utterly dreary Lib Dem (even by Lib Dem standards). Big big shame. Hey ho"
Ben Goldsmith

MitzyLeFrouf · 02/12/2016 20:36

I was just reading those. He accuses the people of Richmond of throwing a tantrum......whilst throwing a twitter tantrum himself. I know it's a favourite word on MN but his sense of entitlement is overwhelming. How could they choose 'drab' Olney when they could have his wonderful brother.

This tweet in particular gave me a chuckle 😂

'I have huge faith that @ZacGoldsmith will be back bigger and better and stronger. He's an inspiration and an unstoppable change-maker.'

Dude, your bro has taken two drubbings in just over 6 months. I don't think anyone feels remotely inspired by him.

BigChocFrenzy · 02/12/2016 20:45

The byelection is a bright spot in a bleak year - the 2nd time that Zac was zapped, deservedly so
< cheers & whistles >

However, the Liberals have traditionally done well in Tory byelections during a Tory government.
In 2020, a GE would be choosing a PM and a government; very different to a protest vote.
Anyway, let's enjoy this moment.

At least it might remind the current PM that she can lose votes from the left of her party, as well as the hard right.
Also, reminds her, in case the polls tempt her to force a quick GE:

Zac called his byelection on the issue he chose - but many voters chose to focus on another issue
(Same sort of mistake Cameron made with the referendum)

The Tories 2015 win was mainly because the Liberal vote collapsed in Tory seats:
The Tory 2015 vote only increased 0.8%, whereas Labour increased 1.5 %. It was the Liberal share dropping by 15.2% that was crucial.

If only the Labour Party hadn't gone off into the wilderness to examine their collective navel .....

Labour reportedly had fewer votes in Richmond than they had members in the constituency.
The official Opposition Party should be doing a lot better than that.

That 515k Labour membership - dwarfing the 150k Tory membership - just creates a slightly bigger echo chamber.
As long as Corbyn is Labour Leader and with close associates / puppet-masters like McDonnell & Seamus Milne, the Tories would probably win even with a Brexit recession.

Unless Brexit causes the economy to fall off a cliff - or the PLP push Corbyn off one ! - it looks like Conservative government until 2025.

Plenty to time to drastically change workers' rights, benefits, the nhs, laws about clean air & beaches .....
Interesting times.
I'm glad I'll be observing them from Germany.

Castelnaumansions · 02/12/2016 20:49

Think 'drab' means possessing what Oprah calls a vagadoodle.
Olney includes Women's Equality Party in her list of thanks, and they are training up women to withstand the incoming; twitterati as well as physical in order to stand for public office.

merrymouse · 02/12/2016 20:50

Apparently neither Ben not Zac did anything as dreary as going to university and getting qualifications.

The only Goldsmith with a degree seems to be Jemima.

You can see how working at something like accountancy exams would be completely beyond comprehension and 'drab'.

SwedishEdith · 02/12/2016 20:55

"Labour reportedly had fewer votes in Richmond than they had members in the constituency.
The official Opposition Party should be doing a lot better than that."

I did read on Twitter (so some caution needed) that Labour canvassers were telling voters to vote Lib Dem.

BestIsWest · 02/12/2016 20:57

Tactical voting. Labour should never have stood in Richmond and I say that as a member.

prettybird · 02/12/2016 20:59

Reading that Bloomberg article doesn't appear to me as signs of softening appearing. To me, it is simply another variant of "having our cake and eating it" - in this case a specially selected cherry cake.

There also still seems to be a lack of understanding that individual EU countries can't pick and choose either Hmm - if and it's a giant if certain sectors were made special cases, it would be the same special case for all the countries.

merrymouse · 02/12/2016 20:59

I have an answer to Julia Hartley Brewer's question to Sarah Olney about re-doing the by election.

Of course Julia. There will be another chance to vote in 2020.

MitzyLeFrouf · 02/12/2016 21:00

Wasn't Zac expelled from Eton when he was caught with drugs? Can you imagine if someone like Tom Watson for example had been expelled from his school for doing drugs, it would be mentioned in the Daily Mail at least three times a day.

Still when you're a billionaire's son little things like that don't stop you from being fast tracked when you fancy giving politics a whirl. No 'drab' existence for Zac!

SwedishEdith · 02/12/2016 21:01

I think large amounts of inherited wealth really does leave some (and it seems to be mostly) men feeling purposeless and pointless. They have no need to earn but feel their wealth entitles them to status. I suppose the very definition of entitled.

Castelnaumansions · 02/12/2016 21:04

I wish these goldsmith people well, but these entitled white men do bore me, all of them.
Looking forward to more 'dreary' sisters winning elections all over this small globe and sharing the lucre.

merrymouse · 02/12/2016 21:11

Anyway, this article tells you absolutely everything you need to know about what we can conclude from Richmond Park. Grin

excelpope.wordpress.com/2016/12/02/richmond-the-facts/

Castelnaumansions · 02/12/2016 21:21

Grin merry

Peregrina · 02/12/2016 21:25

There will be another chance to vote in 2020.

You could even have told her the date. Unless TM's Govt goes and collapses before then.

MangoMoon · 02/12/2016 21:56

Grin love that link merry!

BigChocFrenzy · 02/12/2016 22:40

Just to depress us again:
Notts police are investigating 2nd death threat to prominent Remainer & Conservative MP Anna Soubry
www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/dec/02/police-investigate-tweet-jo-cox-mp-anna-soubry

MitzyLeFrouf · 02/12/2016 22:49

As much as I like Twitter it really attracts some pond life. Men with tadpole like intelligence making threats of violence against women are depressingly common.

The good thing about twitter is that nothing can really be deleted so cretinous numpties like this can easily be traced.

Castelnaumansions · 02/12/2016 22:57

Yes, I saw that BCF "Anna Soubry MP @Anna_Soubry
.@BathLabourParty thank you. It was the second death threat in 3 days #moreincommon"

Lest we forget.

Just sent her a message of support to:
[email protected]

Self defence is no offence, self defence is intelligence, as some one once said.

HyacinthFuckit · 03/12/2016 08:19

That article went wrong the moment it suggested Zac Goldsmith would have to get any kind of job.

HyacinthFuckit · 03/12/2016 08:32

Agree BestIsWest. Labour clearly have a number of issues at the moment, but trying to extrapolate anything at all about their prospects from an election where they had fewer votes than constituency members is a futile exercise.