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Brexit

Westministenders. Boris has lost it. Time for that emergency budge--- er tax giveaway.

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 21/11/2016 11:17

Bloody hell where are we up to?

Trump is preparing for the White House. He has refused to give up his assets which will be a conflict of interest and maybe lead to corruption. He has just settled a fraud case out of court. One of the cases of illegal sexual behaviour has collapsed after the claimant was too afraid to proceed. His VP believes in stopping all abortions by any means necessary and beliefs in gay conversion therapy. He has appointed a white supremacist as his chief strategist. His attorney general is regarded as amnesty’s biggest enemy opposing just about all human rights bills as a senator. He has also been dogged by accusations of racism. His national security advisor supports torture techniques such as water boarding. These three appointments have been greeted with delight from the former leader of the KKK.

Man of the people, Nigel Farage is trying to undermine Theresa May and sideline the government by cozying up to Trump in front of a couple of gold doors. His long term intentions look increasingly wider than purely being about the EU and ever more sinister in nature. He is in danger of doing a rather good Moseley impression.

Meanwhile rumours persist of voter suppression and dubious election practices in several key states, which are hugely undemocratic and Hillary Clinton wins the popular vote.

These are all things you are supposed to ignore, and are just expected to believe that everything is okay and that it’s the fault of liberals for standing up for discrimination and that this discrimination is none existent in the first place. Unless your Head of State is named Merkel.

But don’t worry, our Head of State is set to intervene though. The Queen is due to invite Trump to Windsor and is our secret weapon. Like Kate is our secret Brexit weapon. The cost of this intervention? A £396million refurb of Buck Pally. If she can pull that off, hell, let’s just send her to Brussels instead of Johnson. We might get some good will even if Philip drops a clanger about prosecco.

Back in the UK, the a50 saga drags on. The NI case now joins the ‘People’s Challenge’ at the Supreme Court, as well as new representation coming from both the Scottish Government and Welsh assembly. The government defence has changed, with one of the key changes has been to describe our rights under the EU as different by calling them “internationally established rights” and therefore different to domestic rights. They now say that they previously agreed with the claimant that a50 was irrevocable, their position is now that whether it is irrevocable or revocable is irrelevant to the strength of the case, effectively leaving it open for the devolved governments to pursue this line.

Previously it was assumed that this would require a referral to the ECJ. It is not necessarily the case. The situation is more complex as was outlined in a HoC Library Briefing. In this, it states a referral might be legal unavoidable as otherwise could be open to damages, might not be needed as the Supreme Court itself holds the power to decide whether a50 is reversible or not or that the Supreme Court does not have the authority to refer until after a50 has been triggered (which changes the dynamics of things).

Even then, it might prove to be legally possible but politically impossible to reverse, it might require a unanimous agreement to reverse by the other 27 which might enforce conditions in doing so.

Several senior Conservatives have called for the government to drop the appeal. Oliver Letwin, argues that it is might up the government up to being vetoed by the devolved assemblies, Dominic Grieve thinks its simply unlikely to win, and Edward Garnier has said it leaves “an opportunity for ill motivated people to attack the judiciary and misconstrue the motives of both parties to the lawsuit”.

One of the Supreme Court judges has been criticised for outlining the case to law students in a speech due to misreporting. In the speech she said that the referendum was not legally binding before going on to explain that an act of parliament to trigger a50 might not be enough and that the Great Repeal Act might have to be passed to replace the European Communities Act before we can notify the EU of our intent to leave if the defense case holds up before she went on to explain the government’s position. Another Supreme Court judge has been called to excuse himself after his wife made pro-EU tweets as obviously by nature of being married, is completely biased.

A former lord chief justice has now warned that Liz Truss has caused a “constitutional breakdown” and may have broken the law by failing to defend judges.

I’m putting money on the live video feed of the Supreme Court breaking due to ‘unprecedented demand’. This of course is a conspiracy.

At the same time a Three Line Bill for a50 is prepared to put to the HoC with the intention that the HoC and HoL would not ‘dare defy it’. Except the Lib Dem Lords are suggesting they see no reason why they shouldn’t table an amendment that ensures parliamentary scrutiny and have consulted a constitutional lawyer over the matter. The feeling is that, if they don’t do this, then what is the point of the HoL? At the same time, measures to restrict the powers of the HoL over statutory instruments have also been dropped. This seems to be a good thing given the timing, until you find out the apparent reason; they apparently will need these powers to enact the Great Repeal Act.

Elsewhere a who’s who of the right of the Tory Party – 60 MPs – back a call to leave the Single Market and the Customs Union, whilst Hammond regards himself as the last voice of sanity in the Cabinet over the realistic challenges of Brexit.

Hammond is to deliver his Autumn Statement this week, which looks set to include tax breaks to those earning over £43,000 which Shadow Chancellor McDonnell agrees with. McDonnell of course has been doing a lot of agreeing with the government lately. Austerity looks unlikely to end. The NHS seems likely to as well.

Work and Pensions Secretary, Damien Green has been wetting his pants at the exciting opportunity to expand the gig economy. The growth of which I think few will argue has been a hugely contributory factor to feelings that drove the Leave vote. More Tory MPs have rebelled on cuts to disability benefits calling them cruel.

Liz Truss has had a riot from prisoners and a revolt from the prison staff in addition to her problems

Amber Rudd has been forced to admit there are secret files on the miners’ strike and Orgreave clashes which she did not take into consideration whilst making the Orgreave decision. Is that the faint whiff of a cover up? She has also had the largest victims charity withdraw its support from the child abuse inquiry initiated by May.

Arron Banks has a plan to ‘Drain the Swamp’ of British politics from corruption. This seems to ignore the incredible antics of Liam Fox and instead focus on some of the most pro-remain voices of Clegg, Soubry and Lammy. This happens just as UKIP have been accused in a EU audit, which Farage does not think are carried out frequency enough, that it has spent hundreds of thousands of pounds improperly and may have to refund this. This is unfair. Apparently. In other UKIP’s news, the likely leader, Paul Nuttall, has said on the day that Aleppo’s last hospital was destroyed that he thinks Putin is behaving appropriately in Syria. Post-Truth indeed.

What we need is accountability for the national interest. Not any of this shit of blaming liberalism for the party political self interest of the last 40 years.

In light relief, Ed Balls might be popular at dancing but when it comes to leader of Labour he polls even worse than Corbyn. A fate only shared by Tony Blair. So it could be worse…

Anyway, I know there are few heads going down here, so I’m going to leave you with a link to a quote from Vaclav Havel:
www.indexoncensorship.org/2011/12/vacla-havel-index-on-censorship-ludvik-vakulik/
Vaclav Havel: "We became dissidents without actually knowing how"

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Thread gallery
21
whatwouldrondo · 21/11/2016 20:28

This is an article from someone who visited Milo on the campaign trail. www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jul/26/my-night-out-in-cleveland-with-the-worst-men-on-the-internet
Here are some choice excerpts

"Milo Yiannopoulos is the ideological analogue of Kim Kardashian’s rear end."

"It’s the game of turning raw rage into political currency, the unscrupulous whorebaggery of the troll gone pro. These are people who cashed in their limited principles to cheat at poker. Like Trump, they channel their own narcissism to give voice to the wordless, formless rage of the people neoliberalism left behind."

"His speech is cabaret from start to finish. He sashays up to the podium and strips off his bulletproof vest, giddy with the attention, and announces that he has been banned from Twitter. The news draws cheers from the assembled Gamergate goons.

I’m not going to quote Milo’s speech here. You can find it online if you want to. It’s a very good speech, for a given value of “very good” that’s designed to leave decent people keening in a corner over the death of reason. He tells a racist joke. The crowd goes wild."

"Milo peddles a pageant of insincerity that is immediately legible to fellow Brits. The crowd of excitable young and young-ish people gathered to hear him pontificate believe what he’s saying, even if he doesn’t. Which he doesn’t. And it doesn’t matter."

"It doesn’t matter that he doesn’t mean it. It doesn’t matter that he’s secretly quite a sweet, vulnerable person who is gracious to those he considers friends. It doesn’t matter that somewhere in the rhinestone-rimmed hamster wheel of his mind is a conscience. It doesn’t matter because the harm he does is real.

He is leading a yammering army of trolls to victory on terms they barely understand. "

“It’s just – there’s so much hate,” says one as she breaks down in tears. “What is happening to this country?”

What’s happening to this country has happened before, in other nations, in other anxious, violent times when all the old certainties peeled away and maniacs took the wheel. It’s what happens when weaponised insincerity is applied to structured ignorance. Donald Trump is the Gordon Gekko of the attention economy, but even he is no longer in control."

merrymouse · 21/11/2016 20:29

I suspect the school checked their insurance policy and pondered whether they really wanted to deal with the circus that would accompany him and remembered why they expelled him.

TheBathroomSink · 21/11/2016 20:38

I can't understand what they thought they'd achieve. Was he supposed to be a cautionary tale - 'don't get expelled or you'll end up shilling for an orange misogynist idiot who cons people for a living' or was it supposed to allow the students to show off their debating skills, in which case MY seems a bit of a soft target given that he can only really 'perform' in front of a sympathetic audience?

amaravatti · 21/11/2016 20:42

Don't know if he'd get in to speak now: California is mobilising against Trump
www.latimes.com/politics/la-pol-ca-texas-california-trump-20161117-story.html

RedToothBrush · 21/11/2016 20:43

Adam Bienkov ‏@AdamBienkov
Nigel Farage, who has devoted his entire time as interim Ukip leader to pursuing his career in the US, accuses Diane James of "selfishness".

The UKIP interim leader Nigel Farage said:
"This is yet another act of irrational selfishness from Diane James. This pattern of behaviour says that is she unfit to continue as an MEP. She should do the honourable thing and resign."

At least she bothers to turn up.
Diane James EU Voting Record:
www.votewatch.eu/en/term8-diane-james-2.html
Participation in roll-call votes: 82.12%
Ranking: 602nd

Nigel Farage EU Voting Record:
www.votewatch.eu/en/term8-nigel-farage-2.html
Participation in roll-call votes: 40.25%
Ranking: 744th

UKIP are the laziest party overall turning up for 62.3% of votes. The next worst is Forza Italia from Italy with 78.9%. Incidentally Labour UK come in 5th best with 95.1%. Marie Le Pen's Party actually do favourably with 90.81%.

Why is UKIP Party record just so bad?

The rest of UKIP MEPs from Vote Europe Watch:

Jonathan Arnott UKIP 97.52% Ranking 116th
Stuart Agnew UKIP 91.05% Ranking: 449th
Jill Seymour UKIP 80.94% Ranking: 591st
James Carver UKIP 84.23% Ranking: 622nd
Mike Hookem UKIP 78.92% Ranking: 657th
Margot Parket UKIP 82.22% Ranking: 658th
Nathan Gill UKIP 73.13% Ranking: 669th
Patrick O’Flynn UKIP 80.76% Ranking: 673rd
Roger Helmer UKIP 79.16% Ranking: 678th
David Coburn UKIP 77.74% Ranking: 697th
Julia Reid UKIP 78.09% Ranking: 693rd
Jane Collins UKIP 68.67% Ranking: 694th
Bill Etheridge UKIP 73.27% Ranking: 695th
Gerard Batten UKIP 74.65% Ranking: 709th
Louise Bours UKIP 63.88% Ranking: 729th
Raymond Finch UKIP 67.59% Ranking: 733rd
William (The Earl of) Dartmouth UKIP 62.39% Ranking: 734th
Tim Aker UKIP 63.62% Ranking 739th
Paul Nuttall UKIP 57.38% Ranking: 740th
Nigel Farage UKIP 40.25% Ranking: 744th

Janice Atkinson IND (formerly UKIP) 83.79% Ranking: 576th
Diane James IND (formerly UKIP) 82.12% Ranking: 602nd
Steven Woolfe IND (formerly UKIP) 73.15% Ranking: 686th

Quite an achievement to have 3 sitting MEPs who have left the party they were represented with via proportional representation.

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whatwouldrondo · 21/11/2016 20:45

TheBathroomSink Or they simply did not understand what their old boy was up to and got conned by students who also did not understand what their old boy was up to and thought they could have open season. I am sure he is very pleased they fell into his trap. I am quite sure the last thing he wanted was to turn up...

amaravatti · 21/11/2016 20:53

I am sure he is very pleased they fell into his trap. Yep, that seems to be the game plan. Banks is watching and learning.

TheBathroomSink · 21/11/2016 21:00

Yes, I'm sure he's over the moon. Bucket loads of free publicity in the 'grown-up' news without having to lift a finger, and he gets to take a swipe at a woman with authority. Must feel like it's his lucky day!

Red - if Ukip keep losing MEPs at the rate they are, they are going to end up owing the EU more money than they already do, aren't they?!

In other news:
Jim Waterson ‏@jimwaterson 14m14 minutes ago
Labour is going to allow its "local campaigners to upload campaign adverts directly onto Facebook" which could go well. Or very, very wrong.

Yes, I can't see any possible issues with that...

RedToothBrush · 21/11/2016 21:32

Incidentally here's how our other MEPs fair

Ashley Fox CON 99.1% Ranking: 27th
Charles Tannock CON 97.19% Ranking: 135th
Dan Dalton CON 93.18% Ranking: 354th
Andrew Lewer CON 89.13% Ranking: 400th
Anthea McIntyre CON 90.7% Ranking: 454th
Emma McClarkin CON 86.29% Ranking: 460th
Vicky Ford CON 86.61% Ranking: 484th
Dr Kay Swinburne CON 85.9% Ranking: 528th
Richard Ashworth CON 86.83% Ranking: 574th
Jacqueline Foster CON 81.59% Ranking: 601st
Julie Girling CON 81.27% Ranking: 610th
Geoffrey Van Orden CON 79.02% Ranking: 651st
Ian Duncan CON 76.3% Ranking: 674th
Sajjad Karim CON 73.41% Ranking: 710th
Amjad Bashir CON 68.31% Ranking: 714th
David Campbell Bannerman CON 68.37% Ranking: 723rd
Nirj Deva CON 66.96% Ranking: 724th
Syed Kamall CON 67.93% Ranking: 731st
Daniel Hannan CON 63.44% Ranking: 736th

Jude Kirton-Darling LAB 97.96% Ranking: 91st
Afzal Khan LAB 97.45% Ranking: 118th
David Martin LAB 95.51% Ranking: 142nd
Julie Ward LAB 97.09% Ranking: 144th
Derek Vaughan LAB 96.89% Ranking: 147th
Lucy Anderson LAB 96.82% Ranking: 152nd
Seb Dance LAB 96.68% Ranking: 161st
Mary Honeyball LAB 96.1% Ranking: 200th
Sion Simon LAB 95.39% Ranking: 224th
Paul Brannen LAB 93.09% Ranking: 300th
Catherine Stihler LAB 91.98% Ranking: 338th
Neena Gill LAB 92.67% Ranking: 381st
Richard Corbett LAB 91.51% Ranking: 406th
Theresa Griffin LAB 90.89% Ranking: 456th
Clare Moody LAB 85.76% Ranking: 533rd
Anneliese Dodds LAB 87.71% Ranking: 565th
Claude Moraes LAB 85.11% Ranking: 598th
Linda McAvan LAB 83.56% Ranking: 616th
Richard Howitt LAB 81.2% Ranking: 650th
Dame Glenis Willmott LAB 67.08% Ranking: 716th

Jean Lambert GREEN 91.93% Ranking: 411th
Keith Taylor GREEN 91.5% Ranking: 243rd
Molly Scott Cato GREEN 93.32% Ranking: 345th
Martina Anderson SF 90.52% Ranking: 470th
Diane Dodds DUP 78.41% Ranking: 687th
James Nicholson UUP 88.92% Ranking: 525th
Ian Hudghton SNP 72.06% Ranking: 712th
Alyn Smith SNP 68.7% Ranking: 713th
Catherine Bearder LD 92.4% Ranking: 389th
Jill Evans PC 90.63% Ranking: 468th

There are some poor records from the rest of our MEPs...

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morningrunner · 21/11/2016 21:37

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

RedToothBrush · 21/11/2016 21:40

Robert Peston ‏@Peston

@michaelgove says high court made correct ruling that Article 50 should only be triggered after parliamentary approval

Well here's a thing.

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TheBathroomSink · 21/11/2016 21:47

Gove also reckons he didn't sign that letter at the weekend.

RedToothBrush · 21/11/2016 22:02

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-news-richard-branson-virgin-group-eu-referendum-a7430396.html
Richard Branson's Virgin to bankroll secret Blairite campaign to stop Brexit
Exclusive: Email seen by The Independent shows billionaire's company has offered tens of thousands of pounds to fund new group

In fairness 'tens of thousands' won't go far.

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RedToothBrush · 21/11/2016 22:16

Daily Telegraph front page headline tomorrow:
Show your passport to see your doctor.
Patients would need two forms of ID for treatment to stop health tourism

Outrageous. Its been shown in the US that strict ID laws disproportionately affect the poor and vulnerable when it comes to voting. Its been used deliberately to supress the vote of certain groups. So the UK is going to try the same tactic here, only with health care.

This will quite obviously provide barriers to anyone struggling financially - those less likely to have formal ID such as passports or indeed utility bills in the first place (but hell they won't vote Tory anyway) or perhaps homeless (but hell they won't vote Tory anyway) or anyone who is young (but hell they won't vote Tory anyway) or have mental health issues (but hell they won't vote Tory anyway) or people who are immigrants but have a legal right to be here and perhaps don't speak English well (but hell they won't vote Tory anyway).

Of course the poor are most likely to have poor health, as are the homeless or those with mental health issues. There are already people who are unable to set up bank accounts because of their circumstances and this put them at a massive disadvantage in life.

Its Health Rights Suppression and got FUCK ALL to do with immigration. Its a cost saving measure for the NHS on dubious terms.

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lalalonglegs · 21/11/2016 22:17

Typical Branson - throw some loose change at a project and try to take all the glory down the road. I would have thought that Blair had deep enough pockets to roll out the campaign himself.

TheBathroomSink · 21/11/2016 22:22

I actually disagree with you a bit there, red, I think immigrants who have a right to be here will be much less affected, because they by definition have some form of id, in order to get here. Plus, it's quite usual in a lot of countries to have to prove entitlement. The elderly and mentally ill will be most affected.

GingerIvy · 21/11/2016 22:23

Isn't Virgin Group also taking on some NHS contracts? Is there any kind of conflict of interest? I hate it when one company has their fingers in that many pies. Hmm

And how do the jobs possibly brought into the UK by Google and Facebook going to change anything, if at all? Will some of the service focus be traded for IT focus for business?

I don't know all the intricacies of all this, so a basic clarification would be great.

TheBathroomSink · 21/11/2016 22:25

Branson's good at that, he made a lot of noise about sponsoring two different f1 teams a few years back, got a lot of publicity and goodwill but actually coughed up tiny amounts of the promised cash.

RedToothBrush · 21/11/2016 22:25

www.theguardian.com/society/2016/nov/21/hospitals-may-require-patients-to-show-passports-for-nhs-treatment

Guardian reporting too.

Patients could be told to bring two forms of identification including a passport to hospital to prove they are eligible for free treatment under new rules to stop so-called health tourism.

The most senior official in the Department of Health told MPs on Monday that he was looking at making hospitals check patients’ papers to find out whether they should be paying, a proposal he admitted was “controversial”.

It would mean that those trying to access health services, including British citizens, might have to prove their identity before having operations and undergoing tests in hospitals, but it would not cover care received at GP surgeries

Chris Wormald, the department’s permanent secretary, told the public accounts committee that passport checks were already taking place at one hospital in Peterborough which services a high immigrant population.

Wormald said: “On the general question of are we looking at whether trusts should proactively ask people to prove their identity – yes we are looking at that.

“Individual trusts like Peterborough are doing that and it is making a big difference – they are saying please come with two forms of identity, your passport and your address, and they use that to check whether people are eligible.

“It is quite a controversial thing to do, to say to the entire population you’ve got to prove your identity.”

Peterborough and Stamford hospitals trust covers an area that has received a high number of eastern European immigrants in recent years.

Woman turns up at hospital without her passport as she's just left an abusive partner who has used this as a way to control her. So she can't get treatment she needs - either emergency or routine. She may not want to tell HCP about her circumstances.

Fucking Bastards. Cold. Inhumane. Elitist out of touch Bastards.

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TheBathroomSink · 21/11/2016 22:27

It's virgin health running NHS stuff around Bath, I don't know if he still owns it or if it just uses the name.

RedToothBrush · 21/11/2016 22:31

I guess ID cards are coming then.

I will blow a gasket at that suggestion, just to warn you all now.

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SwedishEdith · 21/11/2016 22:38

Oh, but you only need to worry about ID cards if you do something wrong! We're all agreed on what "wrong" is aren't we so what's the problem?

RedToothBrush · 21/11/2016 22:42

Swedish do not get me started. Its like a red rag to a bull.

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TheBathroomSink · 21/11/2016 22:45

Don't forget David Davis was a huge opponent of ID cards. As far as I know he hasn't changed his mind on that.

SwedishEdith · 21/11/2016 22:45

Grin I'll desist. Ironically, David Davis is a big anti , of course - one to watch.