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Brexit

Westministenders. Boris has lost it. Time for that emergency budge--- er tax giveaway.

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 21/11/2016 11:17

Bloody hell where are we up to?

Trump is preparing for the White House. He has refused to give up his assets which will be a conflict of interest and maybe lead to corruption. He has just settled a fraud case out of court. One of the cases of illegal sexual behaviour has collapsed after the claimant was too afraid to proceed. His VP believes in stopping all abortions by any means necessary and beliefs in gay conversion therapy. He has appointed a white supremacist as his chief strategist. His attorney general is regarded as amnesty’s biggest enemy opposing just about all human rights bills as a senator. He has also been dogged by accusations of racism. His national security advisor supports torture techniques such as water boarding. These three appointments have been greeted with delight from the former leader of the KKK.

Man of the people, Nigel Farage is trying to undermine Theresa May and sideline the government by cozying up to Trump in front of a couple of gold doors. His long term intentions look increasingly wider than purely being about the EU and ever more sinister in nature. He is in danger of doing a rather good Moseley impression.

Meanwhile rumours persist of voter suppression and dubious election practices in several key states, which are hugely undemocratic and Hillary Clinton wins the popular vote.

These are all things you are supposed to ignore, and are just expected to believe that everything is okay and that it’s the fault of liberals for standing up for discrimination and that this discrimination is none existent in the first place. Unless your Head of State is named Merkel.

But don’t worry, our Head of State is set to intervene though. The Queen is due to invite Trump to Windsor and is our secret weapon. Like Kate is our secret Brexit weapon. The cost of this intervention? A £396million refurb of Buck Pally. If she can pull that off, hell, let’s just send her to Brussels instead of Johnson. We might get some good will even if Philip drops a clanger about prosecco.

Back in the UK, the a50 saga drags on. The NI case now joins the ‘People’s Challenge’ at the Supreme Court, as well as new representation coming from both the Scottish Government and Welsh assembly. The government defence has changed, with one of the key changes has been to describe our rights under the EU as different by calling them “internationally established rights” and therefore different to domestic rights. They now say that they previously agreed with the claimant that a50 was irrevocable, their position is now that whether it is irrevocable or revocable is irrelevant to the strength of the case, effectively leaving it open for the devolved governments to pursue this line.

Previously it was assumed that this would require a referral to the ECJ. It is not necessarily the case. The situation is more complex as was outlined in a HoC Library Briefing. In this, it states a referral might be legal unavoidable as otherwise could be open to damages, might not be needed as the Supreme Court itself holds the power to decide whether a50 is reversible or not or that the Supreme Court does not have the authority to refer until after a50 has been triggered (which changes the dynamics of things).

Even then, it might prove to be legally possible but politically impossible to reverse, it might require a unanimous agreement to reverse by the other 27 which might enforce conditions in doing so.

Several senior Conservatives have called for the government to drop the appeal. Oliver Letwin, argues that it is might up the government up to being vetoed by the devolved assemblies, Dominic Grieve thinks its simply unlikely to win, and Edward Garnier has said it leaves “an opportunity for ill motivated people to attack the judiciary and misconstrue the motives of both parties to the lawsuit”.

One of the Supreme Court judges has been criticised for outlining the case to law students in a speech due to misreporting. In the speech she said that the referendum was not legally binding before going on to explain that an act of parliament to trigger a50 might not be enough and that the Great Repeal Act might have to be passed to replace the European Communities Act before we can notify the EU of our intent to leave if the defense case holds up before she went on to explain the government’s position. Another Supreme Court judge has been called to excuse himself after his wife made pro-EU tweets as obviously by nature of being married, is completely biased.

A former lord chief justice has now warned that Liz Truss has caused a “constitutional breakdown” and may have broken the law by failing to defend judges.

I’m putting money on the live video feed of the Supreme Court breaking due to ‘unprecedented demand’. This of course is a conspiracy.

At the same time a Three Line Bill for a50 is prepared to put to the HoC with the intention that the HoC and HoL would not ‘dare defy it’. Except the Lib Dem Lords are suggesting they see no reason why they shouldn’t table an amendment that ensures parliamentary scrutiny and have consulted a constitutional lawyer over the matter. The feeling is that, if they don’t do this, then what is the point of the HoL? At the same time, measures to restrict the powers of the HoL over statutory instruments have also been dropped. This seems to be a good thing given the timing, until you find out the apparent reason; they apparently will need these powers to enact the Great Repeal Act.

Elsewhere a who’s who of the right of the Tory Party – 60 MPs – back a call to leave the Single Market and the Customs Union, whilst Hammond regards himself as the last voice of sanity in the Cabinet over the realistic challenges of Brexit.

Hammond is to deliver his Autumn Statement this week, which looks set to include tax breaks to those earning over £43,000 which Shadow Chancellor McDonnell agrees with. McDonnell of course has been doing a lot of agreeing with the government lately. Austerity looks unlikely to end. The NHS seems likely to as well.

Work and Pensions Secretary, Damien Green has been wetting his pants at the exciting opportunity to expand the gig economy. The growth of which I think few will argue has been a hugely contributory factor to feelings that drove the Leave vote. More Tory MPs have rebelled on cuts to disability benefits calling them cruel.

Liz Truss has had a riot from prisoners and a revolt from the prison staff in addition to her problems

Amber Rudd has been forced to admit there are secret files on the miners’ strike and Orgreave clashes which she did not take into consideration whilst making the Orgreave decision. Is that the faint whiff of a cover up? She has also had the largest victims charity withdraw its support from the child abuse inquiry initiated by May.

Arron Banks has a plan to ‘Drain the Swamp’ of British politics from corruption. This seems to ignore the incredible antics of Liam Fox and instead focus on some of the most pro-remain voices of Clegg, Soubry and Lammy. This happens just as UKIP have been accused in a EU audit, which Farage does not think are carried out frequency enough, that it has spent hundreds of thousands of pounds improperly and may have to refund this. This is unfair. Apparently. In other UKIP’s news, the likely leader, Paul Nuttall, has said on the day that Aleppo’s last hospital was destroyed that he thinks Putin is behaving appropriately in Syria. Post-Truth indeed.

What we need is accountability for the national interest. Not any of this shit of blaming liberalism for the party political self interest of the last 40 years.

In light relief, Ed Balls might be popular at dancing but when it comes to leader of Labour he polls even worse than Corbyn. A fate only shared by Tony Blair. So it could be worse…

Anyway, I know there are few heads going down here, so I’m going to leave you with a link to a quote from Vaclav Havel:
www.indexoncensorship.org/2011/12/vacla-havel-index-on-censorship-ludvik-vakulik/
Vaclav Havel: "We became dissidents without actually knowing how"

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Thread gallery
21
whatwouldrondo · 21/11/2016 15:13

Sorry I meant 1.7%

Peregrina · 21/11/2016 15:16

Doesn't take long to pick apart Mrs May's claims, does it? As with her recent jolly to India - spun in our press as being a success, but not seen as delivering anything that India wanted in their press.

HummusForBreakfast · 21/11/2016 15:19

An analysis of the effect of the Empire on the way the gouvernement are treating british people (and its link with Brexit - which is going to remove a lot of barriers)

theconversation.com/the-ongoing-effect-of-empire-in-britain-67429?utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#link_time=1479723445

I think its not far from the truth. There will be very little barriers left to protect citizens after leaving the EU (see the issue with Human Rights and Human rights campaigners/lawyers) and is very much in line with the way some group in the population have been treated.

RedToothBrush · 21/11/2016 15:19

I'm no lawyer, but is there a possibility that one of the EU27 may ask the ECJ to rule if they are unhappy with the way things are going ?

nods

Or any private citizen or company within the EU27 with a vested interest in the UK's future.

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usuallydormant · 21/11/2016 15:21

I have had conversations about the Euro with neighbours who have the complaints about Polish/Portuguese/whatever builders coming, working for 3 weeks and sending their high wages home. Particularly as they don't have to pay the same high social charges as the French. Given that the complainers are currently getting high wages in Switzerland and driving the cost of living up locally I'm not convinced of their logic :) But the conversations are more about the logic of one currency for lots of different countries and tax systems/benefits rather than leaving the EU.

But I noticed my trolley at intermarche on Saturday would take FF as well as Euro so someone is hoarding.

MM, a two course meal is the quick version. Even my kids get three courses at cantine ;)

merrymouse · 21/11/2016 15:37

fortune.com/2016/09/23/donald-trump-secret-service/

Trump has so far billed the secret service 1.6 million USD for use of his plane while protecting him during the election.

I can understand the logic - people claim expenses when they use their car for business. However, Trump seems to use his plane alot. If he flies home at weekends or if Government staff stay in his hotels, how much money does he make?

How often do his family use his planes? Presumably they also have to be accompanied at all times?

LurkingHusband · 21/11/2016 15:38

Doesn't take long to pick apart Mrs May's claims, does it? As with her recent jolly to India - spun in our press as being a success, but not seen as delivering anything that India wanted in their press.

The problem is I - and presumably a lot of other people in the UK - are in hourly contact with people in India. Hourly instant contact. I was already aware that Theresa Mays comments were a load of claptrap before they were reported on.

One thing quietly absent from the press - quite surprising given how deep their knowledge of India is n't is the fact that there was a considerable offence taken when the UK joined the EEC. (It was given as one of the arguments against joining) and a slight feeling of abandoning the sub continent (and the commonwealth) to go and play with our new European friends. European friends that less then 40 years previously we had been begging the commonwealth - India in particular - to fight.

Apparently there are enough people in India who remember this. Enough to influence their view on being the UKs new best friend.

None of this will be reported in the UK, of course.

I can't help but feel that as Theresa May stalks flies the world, there will be an awful lot of pigeons coming home to roost.

EmilyAlice · 21/11/2016 15:40

Yes I have read the Ian Dunt Mistigri. Thought it was excellent, explained quite a bit that was new and only just over £5 on Kindle.
I am another Brit in France getting a bit anxious about the May elections. Not sure whether Fillon is a better bet than Juppé against Le Pen yet.
I am also not sure that social media would be as influential here. I think people take more notice of the press.

Peregrina · 21/11/2016 15:45

European friends that less then 40 years previously we had been begging the commonwealth - India in particular - to fight.

Yes, indeed, and who we have largely written out of the success story. 'We were in it on our own (plucky little Britain) after the fall of France.'

Mrs May needs to do a lot more than tell everyone that 'the country is open for business'.

RedToothBrush · 21/11/2016 15:49

Yeah, I like the idea of the Euro in principle but its the thing that's really not working. Even some of the most pro-EU people I know tend to agree on this point.

Scientists for EU ‏@Scientists4EU
This, by Dan Rather, on the dangers of Trump's thin skin and vanity is likely the most succinct summary you will read.

From FB:
Bullies are often thin-skinned, quick to overreact when challenged, and undone when people are no longer afraid to speak the truth to their face. Great presidents are almost always the opposite in all those categories.

Reflecting on Donald Trump's complete overreaction to a statement made at the end of a performance of Broadway's Hamilton: An America Musical, I couldn't help but think - doesn't this man have more important things to worry about Hasn't the theatre long been a stage for political art? And isn't this a man who broke so many norms as a candidate, insulted so many people - individually and as groups - that he now has the nerve to demand an apology when he never gave one himself?

I know there are many who say that this incident shouldn't be blown out of proportion. Yes, when compared to cabinet posts or paying out $25 million in a fraud case against "Trump University," a tweet maybe might not seem that important. But being president is to have every word you utter scrutinised. And these words are intimidating and unfitting of the office of the presidency. But more importantly, they show a real weakness of vanity an small mindedness that our enemies abroad will likely look to exploit. I can also imagine that Trump's political foes at home are noticing - one again - how easily he can be rattled.

I imagine this is not the last we will see of these kinds of incidents.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38051579
Trump State Visit being considered.

Dear British Press, Comedians, Politicians of all colours and the general public, I challenge you to come up with legal, imaginative ways and potentially humorous ways to get around the protective bubble the government will come up with to offend Mr Trump and have him spitting feathers.

Let him get a real British Welcome of Satire. Screw Saturday Night Live, we do this shit better.

I think the tabloids could certainly earn a few quid in extra sales by pulling off a good stunt. Its even appealing to the Mail isn't it as Trump is so disliked here.

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LurkingHusband · 21/11/2016 16:04

Dear British Press, Comedians, Politicians of all colours and the general public, I challenge you to come up with legal, imaginative ways and potentially humorous ways to get around the protective bubble the government will come up with to offend Mr Trump and have him spitting feathers.

I suspect we'll see a lot of anti-"terror" laws being pressed into service to suppress dissent.

RedToothBrush · 21/11/2016 16:07

I'm sure there inventive ways to get around that.

There is only so much you can do.

Besides which, do you think that would stop the tabloids?

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merrymouse · 21/11/2016 16:08

There is only so much that can be done to prevent people going about their day doing things that are perfectly legal before you start infringing civil liberties. Also, as the cast of Hamilton showed, all you need to send a message is an audience with phones.

merrymouse · 21/11/2016 16:16

I'd suggest something inspired by Hamilton, but who knows how the possibilities will have evolved by the time Trump visits. The election was less two weeks ago.

whatwouldrondo · 21/11/2016 16:24

Surely they will just hole him up in Windsor, only that short drive from Heathrow to get him through, and then shield him from any media and the noise of protestors with lots of ceremony, marching and actual trumpets. I bet he won't be able to sit still and cope with the need to have an attention span though.....

I am quite sure that Trump has a clear case of narcissistic personality disorder.www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/narcissistic-personality-disorder/basics/definition/con-20025568 I read recently that his mother was also narcissistic and attention seeking and it is a classic pattern that narcissism in a parent leads to the same in the child. Deprived of attention from their parents they put up a wall of grandiosity around their insecurities and that is why they cannot tolerate criticism or show any empathy for others. The issue with NPD is that people can become depressed often as a result of perceived criticism or the failure of the world to treat you appropriately given your sense of superiority and entitlement. A tycoon can maintain his mental state by living in a bubble and just occasionally getting upset because someone says you have small hands but a President?

I can't see him lasting a term of it.

Mistigri · 21/11/2016 16:26

hummus I guess it depends where you are, much like in the UK. There are a lot of FN voters where I live, but I think it is a combination of the traditional south of France racist vote, and lack of jobs, rather than the cost of living. And maybe the useless PS town council!

RedToothBrush · 21/11/2016 16:27

www.politico.eu/article/european-commission-jean-claude-juncker-will-not-quit-if-martin-schulz-leaves/
More leadership elections. This time EU commission ones.

Last week, Germany’s De Spiegel reportedthat Juncker threatened to leave the Commission if Schulz was not reelected for another term as the Parliament’s president.

The Commission spokesman rubbished the report, saying the“leak” was one-sided and “conveys a wrong version of the reality.”

Schulz faces opposition from MEPs across the spectrum who cite a power-sharing deal that the Socialists and Democrats group struck with the conservative EPPin 2014. Under that deal, Schulz would have to make way for a conservative.

Interesting.

Press Association ‏@PA
#Breaking Diageo to be hit by strikes in run up to Christmas after workers vote for industrial action over cuts to pensions - GMB union

Shit! Get the alcohol in. That's Johnnie Walker, Smirnoff, Captain Morgan's, Baileys, Guinness, Gordon's and most of the bigger Scottish Single Malt Whiskies.

That's the Brexit Whiskey Plan on the Rocks.

UKIP's Diane James has quit the party. Not clear if she will stay on as MEP. (Come on we need a quitter and a EU By-Election for the shits and giggles).

David Davis is in Brussels this week and then off to Strasbourg. Its low key. (As its not being reported very much. See all this hiding your cards requires low profile visits too - probably to stop people underselling the UK).

www.wsj.com/articles/the-eus-new-bomb-is-ticking-in-the-netherlands-1479668148?mod=e2tw
The EU’s New Bomb Is Ticking in the Netherlands
A referendum law has given Dutch euroskeptics a powerful tool to block deeper European integration, and then some, Simon Nixon writes

THE HAGUE—If the European dream is to die, it may be the Netherlands that delivers the fatal blow. The Dutch general election in March is shaping up to be a defining moment for the European project.

The risk to the European Union doesn’t come from Geert Wilders, the leader of anti-EU, anti-immigration Party for Freedom. He is well ahead in the polls and looks destined to benefit from many of the social and economic factors that paved the way for the Brexit and Trump revolts.

But the vagaries of the Dutch political system make it highly unlikely that Mr. Wilders will find his way into government. As things stand, he is predicted to win just 29 out of the 150 seats in the new parliament, and mainstream parties seem certain to shun him as a coalition partner. In an increasingly fragmented Dutch political landscape, most observers agree that the likely outcome of the election is a coalition of four or five center-right and center-left parties.

Instead, the risk to the EU comes from a new generation of Dutch euroskeptics who are less divisive and concerned about immigration but more focused on questions of sovereignty—and utterly committed to the destruction of the EU. Its leading figures are Thierry Baudet and Jan Roos, who have close links to British euroskeptics. They have already scored one significant success: In 2015, they persuaded the Dutch parliament to adopt a law that requires the government to hold a referendum on any law if 300,000 citizens request it. They then took advantage of this law at the first opportunity to secure a vote that rejected the EU’s proposed trade and economic pact with Ukraine, which Brussels saw as a vital step in supporting a strategically important neighbor.

This referendum law is a potential bomb under the EU, as both Dutch politicians and Brussels officials are well aware. Mr. Baudet believes he now has the means to block any steps the EU might seek to take to deepen European integration or stabilize the eurozone if they require Dutch legislation. This could potentially include aid to troubled Southern European countries such as Greece and Italy, rendering the eurozone unworkable.

And thus, you therefore have to ask, if this was a British fear, then how much do we gain from leaving as it pretty much stops any more of a lot of those concerns that motivated lots of Leave voters.

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whatwouldrondo · 21/11/2016 16:28

By the way THIS is the way a President responds to Hamilton (though he does go on a bit)

merrymouse · 21/11/2016 16:38

Surely they will just hole him up in Windsor

Do they close Windsor Great Park when there are state visits? Who doesn't go for a walk and then just decide to burst into a song from their favourite American musical, perhaps with a group of like minded friends, and then maybe share it on YouTube?

It's quite clear that you don't need to be physically close to Trump to provoke him.

RedToothBrush · 21/11/2016 16:46

He's on twitter a lot.
Do you think he will stop being on twitter when he comes to the UK?

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LurkingHusband · 21/11/2016 16:49

Shit! Get the alcohol in. That's Johnnie Walker, Smirnoff, Captain Morgan's, Baileys, Guinness, Gordon's and most of the bigger Scottish Single Malt Whiskies.

Or distil your own Hmm. Imagine if the UK suddenly discovered there had been a thriving home distilling community for years (by visiting their local homebrew store) Smile

RedToothBrush · 21/11/2016 16:55

We brew. Don't distil.

Though DH would given half the chance. He's currently banned, as he'd probably blow the house up. I've said he can do things like this when we have a shed a distance far enough away from the house that he can't do any damage.

(We are not in danger of moving anytime soon).

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Unicornsarelovely · 21/11/2016 17:02

Lurking's comment about India was interesting. NZ and Australia felt very much the same I understand. No doubt they'll be overjoyed to have us backHmm.

TheBathroomSink · 21/11/2016 17:04

He's on twitter a lot.
Do you think he will stop being on twitter when he comes to the UK?

I think he'll stop being on Twitter when someone changes all his passwords and hides all his phones/tablets/computers (probably in the name of national security) and not a minute sooner. He craves the attention it brings him and he'd probably get bored and quit if he couldn't spend his time spreading his wisdom to his adoring fans.