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Brexit

Westministenders. Boris has lost it. Time for that emergency budge--- er tax giveaway.

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 21/11/2016 11:17

Bloody hell where are we up to?

Trump is preparing for the White House. He has refused to give up his assets which will be a conflict of interest and maybe lead to corruption. He has just settled a fraud case out of court. One of the cases of illegal sexual behaviour has collapsed after the claimant was too afraid to proceed. His VP believes in stopping all abortions by any means necessary and beliefs in gay conversion therapy. He has appointed a white supremacist as his chief strategist. His attorney general is regarded as amnesty’s biggest enemy opposing just about all human rights bills as a senator. He has also been dogged by accusations of racism. His national security advisor supports torture techniques such as water boarding. These three appointments have been greeted with delight from the former leader of the KKK.

Man of the people, Nigel Farage is trying to undermine Theresa May and sideline the government by cozying up to Trump in front of a couple of gold doors. His long term intentions look increasingly wider than purely being about the EU and ever more sinister in nature. He is in danger of doing a rather good Moseley impression.

Meanwhile rumours persist of voter suppression and dubious election practices in several key states, which are hugely undemocratic and Hillary Clinton wins the popular vote.

These are all things you are supposed to ignore, and are just expected to believe that everything is okay and that it’s the fault of liberals for standing up for discrimination and that this discrimination is none existent in the first place. Unless your Head of State is named Merkel.

But don’t worry, our Head of State is set to intervene though. The Queen is due to invite Trump to Windsor and is our secret weapon. Like Kate is our secret Brexit weapon. The cost of this intervention? A £396million refurb of Buck Pally. If she can pull that off, hell, let’s just send her to Brussels instead of Johnson. We might get some good will even if Philip drops a clanger about prosecco.

Back in the UK, the a50 saga drags on. The NI case now joins the ‘People’s Challenge’ at the Supreme Court, as well as new representation coming from both the Scottish Government and Welsh assembly. The government defence has changed, with one of the key changes has been to describe our rights under the EU as different by calling them “internationally established rights” and therefore different to domestic rights. They now say that they previously agreed with the claimant that a50 was irrevocable, their position is now that whether it is irrevocable or revocable is irrelevant to the strength of the case, effectively leaving it open for the devolved governments to pursue this line.

Previously it was assumed that this would require a referral to the ECJ. It is not necessarily the case. The situation is more complex as was outlined in a HoC Library Briefing. In this, it states a referral might be legal unavoidable as otherwise could be open to damages, might not be needed as the Supreme Court itself holds the power to decide whether a50 is reversible or not or that the Supreme Court does not have the authority to refer until after a50 has been triggered (which changes the dynamics of things).

Even then, it might prove to be legally possible but politically impossible to reverse, it might require a unanimous agreement to reverse by the other 27 which might enforce conditions in doing so.

Several senior Conservatives have called for the government to drop the appeal. Oliver Letwin, argues that it is might up the government up to being vetoed by the devolved assemblies, Dominic Grieve thinks its simply unlikely to win, and Edward Garnier has said it leaves “an opportunity for ill motivated people to attack the judiciary and misconstrue the motives of both parties to the lawsuit”.

One of the Supreme Court judges has been criticised for outlining the case to law students in a speech due to misreporting. In the speech she said that the referendum was not legally binding before going on to explain that an act of parliament to trigger a50 might not be enough and that the Great Repeal Act might have to be passed to replace the European Communities Act before we can notify the EU of our intent to leave if the defense case holds up before she went on to explain the government’s position. Another Supreme Court judge has been called to excuse himself after his wife made pro-EU tweets as obviously by nature of being married, is completely biased.

A former lord chief justice has now warned that Liz Truss has caused a “constitutional breakdown” and may have broken the law by failing to defend judges.

I’m putting money on the live video feed of the Supreme Court breaking due to ‘unprecedented demand’. This of course is a conspiracy.

At the same time a Three Line Bill for a50 is prepared to put to the HoC with the intention that the HoC and HoL would not ‘dare defy it’. Except the Lib Dem Lords are suggesting they see no reason why they shouldn’t table an amendment that ensures parliamentary scrutiny and have consulted a constitutional lawyer over the matter. The feeling is that, if they don’t do this, then what is the point of the HoL? At the same time, measures to restrict the powers of the HoL over statutory instruments have also been dropped. This seems to be a good thing given the timing, until you find out the apparent reason; they apparently will need these powers to enact the Great Repeal Act.

Elsewhere a who’s who of the right of the Tory Party – 60 MPs – back a call to leave the Single Market and the Customs Union, whilst Hammond regards himself as the last voice of sanity in the Cabinet over the realistic challenges of Brexit.

Hammond is to deliver his Autumn Statement this week, which looks set to include tax breaks to those earning over £43,000 which Shadow Chancellor McDonnell agrees with. McDonnell of course has been doing a lot of agreeing with the government lately. Austerity looks unlikely to end. The NHS seems likely to as well.

Work and Pensions Secretary, Damien Green has been wetting his pants at the exciting opportunity to expand the gig economy. The growth of which I think few will argue has been a hugely contributory factor to feelings that drove the Leave vote. More Tory MPs have rebelled on cuts to disability benefits calling them cruel.

Liz Truss has had a riot from prisoners and a revolt from the prison staff in addition to her problems

Amber Rudd has been forced to admit there are secret files on the miners’ strike and Orgreave clashes which she did not take into consideration whilst making the Orgreave decision. Is that the faint whiff of a cover up? She has also had the largest victims charity withdraw its support from the child abuse inquiry initiated by May.

Arron Banks has a plan to ‘Drain the Swamp’ of British politics from corruption. This seems to ignore the incredible antics of Liam Fox and instead focus on some of the most pro-remain voices of Clegg, Soubry and Lammy. This happens just as UKIP have been accused in a EU audit, which Farage does not think are carried out frequency enough, that it has spent hundreds of thousands of pounds improperly and may have to refund this. This is unfair. Apparently. In other UKIP’s news, the likely leader, Paul Nuttall, has said on the day that Aleppo’s last hospital was destroyed that he thinks Putin is behaving appropriately in Syria. Post-Truth indeed.

What we need is accountability for the national interest. Not any of this shit of blaming liberalism for the party political self interest of the last 40 years.

In light relief, Ed Balls might be popular at dancing but when it comes to leader of Labour he polls even worse than Corbyn. A fate only shared by Tony Blair. So it could be worse…

Anyway, I know there are few heads going down here, so I’m going to leave you with a link to a quote from Vaclav Havel:
www.indexoncensorship.org/2011/12/vacla-havel-index-on-censorship-ludvik-vakulik/
Vaclav Havel: "We became dissidents without actually knowing how"

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SwedishEdith · 21/11/2016 22:46

x-post by .02 seconds!

RedToothBrush · 21/11/2016 22:55

nypost.com/2016/11/21/donald-trumps-media-summit-was-a-f-ing-firing-squad/
Donald Trump’s media summit was a ‘f—ing firingsquad’

Trump meets with the press for the first time since the election. It went well...

“Trump started with Jeff Zucker and said I hate your network, everyone at CNN is a liar and you should be ashamed…

“The meeting was a total disaster. The TV execs and anchors went in there thinking they would be discussing the access they would get to the Trump administration, but instead they got a Trump-style dressing down,” the source added.

A second source confirmed the encounter.

“The meeting took place in a big board room and there were about 30 or 40 people, including the big news anchors from all the networks…,” the source said.

“Trump kept saying, ‘We’re in a room of liars, the deceitful dishonest media who got it all wrong. He addressed everyone in the room calling the media dishonest, deceitful liars. He called out Jeff Zucker by name and said everyone at CNN was a liar, and CNN was network of liars.

“Trump didn’t say Katy Tur by name, but talked about an NBC female correspondent who got it wrong, then he referred to a horrible network correspondent who cried when Hillary lost who hosted a debate – which was Martha Raddatz who was also in the room.

That bodes well. Seems Trump on the campaign trail is exactly Trump as President. Who would have thought.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/nov/21/orgreave-files-reveal-anxiety-trial-collapse-could-warrant-inquiry-miners-strike?CMP=share_btn_tw
Orgreave files reveal concern trial collapse could warrant inquiry
Exclusive: Home Office files, including a 1985 memo to Margaret Thatcher, released after public inquiry ruled out last month

Margaret Thatcher was told of serious Home Office concern that flaws in police evidence could lead to an investigation into the Orgreave clashes the day after the collapse in 1985 of the first major trials into the incident.

Newly released Whitehall public order files from the 1980s also show the Home Office gave serious consideration to setting up a French CRS-style paramilitary riot force in the aftermath of the miners’ strike.

The Home Office files, seen by the Guardian, were released after the home secretary, Amber Rudd, ruled out a public inquiry last month into police actions against striking miners during and after the 1984 “Battle of Orgreave” at the height of the strike.

They show that Thatcher was also advised to rule out a public inquiry into the collapse of the Orgreave trials despite being told there were serious problems.

Oops.

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RedToothBrush · 21/11/2016 23:12

If it happens, I'll eat my hat if Davis publically voices opposition to it.

Anyway, Trump voters are about to get their first nasty surprise:
bipartisanreport.com/2016/11/21/breaking-trump-announces-plan-to-eliminate-overtime-pay-for-20000000-americans/
BREAKING: Trump Announces Plan To ELIMINATE Overtime Pay For 20,000,000 Americans

www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/obama-expanded-overtime-pay-for-millions-of-workers-trump-could-take-it-away_us_58334ba0e4b058ce7aac5ee5?42qscs7flhjxxbt9
President Obama Expanded Overtime Pay For Millions Of Workers. President Trump Could Take It Away.
It would take some effort, but the new president could put one of Obama’s signature achievements on the chopping block.

Michael Moore will love that one.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/tory-mps-rip-off-millions-9306329#ICID=sharebar_twitter
Tory MPs 'rip off' millions of students by blocking Martin Lewis-backed bid to make their loans fairer
The Money Saving Expert backed a law to stop ministers tinkering with student loans after millions were "sold a lie". But Tory MPs voted it down

While we have the Great Student Rip Off

The bid, put as an amendment to the Higher Education and Research Bill, was voted down 278-180, a majority of 97.

Labour have 232 MPs.
The SNP have 56 MPs.
The LDs have 8 MPs.
The Greens have 1MP.
How many does that make?

I look forward to seeing who voted and who didn't.

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Bolshybookworm · 21/11/2016 23:26

Just a minor quibble, but I'm wondering how many services the "show your passport" request would actually affect. For most hospital appointments, you're referred by your GP. If memory serves (it's a while since I registered) you have to show proof of address and ID when you register with your GP, so the hospital shouldn't need to see these again. Would this just apply to people turning up in A&E then?

TheBathroomSink · 21/11/2016 23:37

Were the snp allowed to vote?

Either way, they will would've needed all the absent labour mps to turn up too.

RedToothBrush · 21/11/2016 23:47

I suspect looking at that, they possibly weren't.

It does look like everyone else turned up or paired up with the opposition so the didn't have to - the number of no show tories match the two missing LDs and the number of Lab MPs missing.

Does show how screwed we'd be in England without SNP support in the future if they did leave.

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Peregrina · 21/11/2016 23:47

No surprise that Nicola Blackwood voted it down. Obviously not too fussed about representing students in Oxford West and Abingdon. Well, Oxford students are all wealthy, aren't they?

prettybird · 22/11/2016 00:10

EVEL applied to large parts of the bill as some applied to England only and some everywhere but Scotland, so that would explain the lack of SNP votes.

merrymouse · 22/11/2016 04:21

www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/nov/22/nigel-farage-uk-ambassador-us-donald-trump

Oh dear. Oh dear. Oh dear.

Not sure which is more worrying - the idea that Farage might become US ambassador, Trump putting this kind of pressure on the UK via Twitter, or the the clear evidence that Trump doesn't have a clue!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mistigri · 22/11/2016 04:37

I wonder if our leaver friends will see this as "unwanted foreign interference"? (Remember the clamour when Obama said something about brexit?)

So sick of the double standards.

Mistigri · 22/11/2016 04:44

Patients could be told to bring two forms of identification including a passport to hospital to prove they are eligible for free treatment under new rules to stop so-called health tourism.

I honestly don't understand this. Is it another case of this government not understanding the current law?

I have a British passport, but I am only entitled to free emergency care in the UK (not elective care), and only if I show my EHIC. Recently DS had to have an eye examination in the UK - we had to pay even though this is a service provided for free to the children of British residents.

What does nationality have to do with this? There are at least 3 million Britons who are not automatically entitled to NHS care.

whatwouldrondo · 22/11/2016 05:15

To be fair there are many Leave voters who don't support Trump.

So if the UK want to cultivate a special relationship with Trump we have to tear down the wind farms that he thinks are spoiling the view from his golf courses....... and he isn't going to use the Presidency to further his business interests........

mathanxiety · 22/11/2016 05:19

Just placemarking.

Thank you so much Red.

mathanxiety · 22/11/2016 05:29

Just a comment on IDs in the US - your driver's licence is acceptable proof of ID, but you have to provide a good deal of proof of who you are and your eligibility to be in the country in order to get one, plus you have to pass your driving test. States also offer State IDs that are independent of driving tests, but you also have to offer several forms of proof of who you are and where you live to get one. It really does discriminate against the poor and those who move around a lot. Plus, some states have closed down many of the facilities where these IDs are available, so the poor have to catch a bus and make a trip of a few hours and then line up to go through the process. You might have to take a day off your precarious work to do this.

I agree with you 100%, Whatwouldrondo - forces have been unleashed that nobody is in control of (and how all of this will end cannot be predicted, but I think the smart money is on 'badly').

merrymouse · 22/11/2016 05:42

www.google.co.uk/amp/mobile.nytimes.com/2016/11/21/business/media/trump-summons-tv-figures-for-private-meeting-and-lets-them-have-it.amp.html?client=safari

From the article

“Trump Eats Press,” wrote Breitbart News.

Those curious to hear more of what the president-elect had to say at the closed-door session were out of luck: Although more than two dozen prominent journalists attended, many declined to comment because they had agreed to keep the proceedings off the record.

Kellyanne Conway, a top adviser to Mr. Trump, described the meeting in more tempered terms. “It was very cordial, very productive, very congenial,” Ms. Conway told reporters at Trump Tower. “It was also very candid and very honest.”

“From my own perspective,” she added, “it’s great to hit the reset button.”

Why is she even attempting to dress it up as a civilised meeting?

Meanwhile Trump tweets:
Prior to the election it was well known that I have interests in properties all over the world.Only the crooked media makes this a big deal!

I suspect conflicts of interest are a 'big deal' for the majority of voters who didn't vote for Trump, the voters who chose not to vote for Clinton because of the Clnton foundation and all the people who found both candidates beyond the
pale.

This is only the end of week 2. What is going to happen next?

HesterThrale · 22/11/2016 06:56

Thanks Red. Glad to see the thread seems to be back to what it's been since the day after the ref: non-personal exchange of views and information. I've learnt a lot from it, and respect the wisdom of lots of posters on here.

This guy is keeping tabs on UKIP. It's a bit shocking really; how can anyone think they're a professional outfit to be taken seriously (well DT I suppose):

www.richardcorbett.org.uk/defected-arrested-suspended-convicted/

lalalonglegs · 22/11/2016 07:06

Ugh, just woken up to the news that Trump is helpfully suggesting Farage becomes our ambassador to the US - please, please government, show some backbone on this one.

Mistigri · 22/11/2016 07:16

This is skin-crawling stuff:

www.theguardian.com/world/2016/nov/21/alt-right-conference-richard-spencer-white-nationalists?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Go and watch the video from this conference that is circulating on Twitter, in which attendees chant "Heil Trump" and make Nazi salutes.

Would be helpful if everyone would agree to avoid the term "alt right" and use the factually correct terms "neo-nazis" or "white supremacists".

Mistigri · 22/11/2016 07:22

UKIP led group found to have misused EU money to fund national election and brexit campaigns. May leave them open to prosecution for electoral fraud.

news.sky.com/story/ukip-misspent-eu-funding-on-brexit-campaign-says-leaked-audit-10660254

These people are not just incompetent bigots - looks like they are also crooks. I am just so disgusted by this. Thank God for the EU eh? The british press would let this bunch of criminals off the hook.

Grifone · 22/11/2016 07:38

We are living in very worrying times Sad

merrymouse · 22/11/2016 07:44

I don't see how Farage can become ambassador - UK ambassadors are not like Anerican Ambassadors. They are civil servants from the foreign office, not politicians.

However, giving Farage any role whatsoever would be an admission that the UK has no power.

Farage is incompetent at anything other than rabble rousing. The only thing he has managed to do is back a president who failed to win the popular vote at the point when he was least popular.

Uppsala · 22/11/2016 07:47

"To be fair there are many Leave voters who don't support Trump." i know several British Muslims who vote Leave and are worried about Trump.

Would somebody mind explaining why you think Trump has been invited to visit the Queen and what that says about the Queen's stance on Trump, (and is anti Muslim ideology) and possibly even Brexit? Why was he invited so soon? It looks like our monarchy is endorsing Trump?

lalalonglegs · 22/11/2016 07:51

Uppsala I heard on the news yesterday that Trump told the powers that be (Farage, I expect) that if the British wanted to "curry favour" with the US, they should lay on a state visit with full pomp and regalia as soon as possible. Apparently his mother was "a big fan of the Queen" and it would be a fitting tribute to her memory Hmm.

merrymouse · 22/11/2016 07:53

Would somebody mind explaining why you think Trump has been invited to visit the Queen and what that says about the Queen's stance on Trump

The Queen can't have a stance on Trump that is different to parliament's stance.

It is normal to invite US presidents to visit the UK, and when they do, they meet the head of state, the Queen.

Things aren't normal at the moment, but things would have to be very bad for the UK to be seen to discontinue normal relations with the US - but then it's only 2 weeks since the general election and Trump seems to be deliberately undermining the Brutish PM, so who knows what happens next.Confused