'The Brexit Arms' is now open. Friendly cosy pub with log fire for leavers & remainers to chat & ponder life, the universe, & Brexit.

[surferjet]

You are all most welcome

you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/abolish-the-house-of-lords
This might be a place to start.

Thanks for replying Red - my dh doesn't think we'll leave either but he's been saying that for weeks. ( he voted leave )

No I don't think there should be a ghe. I'd like a50 it triggered tomorrow but happy with Mays schedule and don't mind today's result.

People saying that this delay 'weakens our negotiating position' seems to be equating the complexities of the EU, British sovereignty, parliamentary democracy and the rule of law with the posturing involved in cobbling together a new order for the Coronation Street knicker factory.

Stripey, I think that scenario the more likely leaning towards at present rather than one which is not leaving. It fits with what the EU might be prepared to offer.

I don't agree with abolishing the HoL. I think it needs reform, but not abolition. The Upper Chamber is a check and balance to the lower Chamber. Having two elected chambers doesn't necessarily serve the country well. It is what the US has and it causes problems.

I confess, I am coming around to the idea of PR begrudgingly. This is something I've always been opposed to previously.

Surfer, DH has said we won't leave since 24th June. He's a remainer. I'm suspect his reasons for believing we won't leave are probably different to your DH's. DH doesn't think a lot of the government and thinks the public will be the ones to do it eventually rather than a 'stitch up from the elite'. Part of me wishes that I shared this view.

How so Liney?

Well leaving aside the small matter of the UK not actually having a negotiating position ... when we do have one, it will be a negotiating position on the issue of the UK leaving the EU in order to regain / retain / strengthen [delete as per one's wish] parliamentary sovereignty and democracy.

But such a negotiating position necessarily has to be open and transparent, not secret and closed, precisely because of parliamentary sovereignty and democracy.

It's not the same as playing your cards close to your chest in a backroom deal.

Hang on everyone - looks like the ruling isn't valid.

The Mail has uncovered the fact that one of the judges is an "openly gay ex-Olympic fencer"

Seriously.

Oh no. An openly gay and very good sportsperson who is a qualified lawyer. It's the end of civilization.

Interesting that one of the judges founded a European law group, surprise surprise.

This is not going to end well at all. Leavers will hate remainers even more than they do now, UKIP will rise again & gain even more support.
Well done remainers.

surfer, seriously why are you so aginst this?

We have an unelected PM, why would you be happy for her to ride roughshod and decide on behalf of everyone what Brexit should look like?

Parliament is sovereign, it's only right they should debate how we leave.

The only reason I can think you'd want it to be pushed through without question is you know it won't stand up to those questions.

They don't want to debate 'how we leave' - they want to frustrate & drag out the entire process making it as difficult as possible to trigger A50. Fine, that's how you want it.

NIGEL!!! we need you.

Of course they want to debate how we leave, it's you lot that are all gung-ho and think we can just draw a line and it'll be done and dusted do don't need to debate anything.

Leavers will hate remainers even more than they do now

Well that's a candid admission.

No they don't want to debate anything, they want to stop Brexit happening at all.

Fuckers.

Surfer that's absolutely true, no question. That's why I don't think there should be legislation. A simple vote is ok. I don't think we need that really, because we have the mandate, which is mightier than parliament. But a resolution in each house would be nice, then on to the sunlit uplands. But your observation is bang on, and the rest is disingenuous.

surfer you are completely blinded by your racist prejudices.

We have to debate the other aspects of this much as you'd love to just pull up the drawbridge tomorrow.

I like all the remainers I know in real life, they're lovely.

But they're normal and don't think their votes and wishes are worth more than other people's.

Surf you're no racist. I do wish I had a name like surf. My shortened is winch. It's rubbish.

Surfer - he'll be back, there is no way he is going to sit on the sidelines on this one.

I am all for scutiny and democracy especially on such a big issue, however,
there was a moment somewhere between 24th June and yesterday when I was thinking I had been unfairly judging Remainers as fat cat/elitist/me,me,me type people ....... and then today happened!!

Oh and I also agree about 'careful what you wish for'.

But it will all be blamed on us in the end. Even if they can't work out how it's our fault, there's always the failsafe 'racist!'

Completely genuine question here Leavers

What is your justification for wanting an unelected PM and her government to decide on the intricacies of something this monumental without consulting parliament?

He says if we aren't out by 2019 he'll be back.

There was a referendum majority, every prime minister is unelected in this party except to their seat, and a public mandate renders a parliamentary vote unnecessary.