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Brexit

'leavers' At last we have a date for A50. March 2017 it is then.

294 replies

surferjet · 02/10/2016 18:00

Good to have a set date.

OP posts:
PigletWasPoohsFriend · 05/10/2016 21:25

Or will those MPs need to speak to the press to voice views that represent 48% of the population

There has been MP after MP have talked about to the media

The majority however also acknowledge that the majority voted leave.

smallfox2002 · 05/10/2016 22:23

Very small majority. That needs adressing.

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 05/10/2016 22:57

Very small majority

It was still the result!

smallfox2002 · 05/10/2016 23:14

So what? It doesn't give a mandate for the proposals seen this week.

Such a small winning majority would give a mandate for the Brexit lite option.

Even then in the leave vote there were so many other factors at play, you take out the disenfranchised vote, which was nothing to do with EU membership, and it wouldn't have won at all.

Ah well, the turkeys have spoken, just waiting for Christmas now.

Peregrina · 06/10/2016 08:19

Such a small winning majority would give a mandate for the Brexit lite option.

Which would be the nearest to squaring with a Tory manifesto promise of supporting the Single market. And then again, what happened to the manifesto promise of enfranchising overseas British Nationals?

tiggytape · 06/10/2016 10:04

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smallfox2002 · 06/10/2016 12:12

The mandate would have been to push for further change and this would have been clear to both the Government and the EU that the UK population felt this was necessary. Even Farage said it would leave unfinished business. So therefore lobbying for change, or for further refferenda would have been possible.

At the moment though what we are getting is a process by which a minority of voters within the electorate are having their desires delivered, especially in relation to the immigration questions and leaving the single market.

The fact is anyway, that the majority of reasons given, apart from immigration, for leaving the EU: TTIP, Democracy, NHS blah blah blah have been shown to be compromised, and seriously so.

What we are seeing is a power grab by a government who has abandoned the mandate on which it was elected, and is very, very worrying.

tiggytape · 06/10/2016 14:00

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tiggytape · 06/10/2016 14:11

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Waytogojo · 06/10/2016 15:02

I'm pleased to see Tiggy's totally reasoned and polite posts getting a response. For ages, as I've lurked, unwilling to provide fresh meat to the baying hounds Grin, she has popped in by to say something sensible...and been totally ignored while the bloodbath continued. If they do a stoic poster of the year award she will get my vote.

Corcory · 06/10/2016 15:16

Completely agree Tiggy.

MangoMoon · 06/10/2016 16:59

Also agree with Tiggy.

smallfox2002 · 06/10/2016 17:08

The problem with immigration being an issue is that the reasons most given for wanting less immigration are often founded on perception rather that reality.

Immigration doesn't cause lower wages, the bank of England's research into said that a ten percentage point increase in immigration to a low paid industry cause a 1.8 percent decrease for the lowest paid. Yet even at its highest level EU immigrants being employed in low paid jobs only increased by 7 percentage points. The actual evidence. Points to low wage growth over the last 10 years being down to the fall out from the world financial crisis.

Immigration does not cause extra pressure on the NHS, in fact as migrants tend to be younger and healthier they tend not to use it much, a fall in immigration would lead to lower levels of funding and no corresponding fall in demand.

Immigration doesn't cause unemployment amongst British nationals. It doesn't cause shortages of social housing, and EU immigrants are under represented on the benefits claimaint statistics for their percentage of the work force.

Sorry but just saying they prefer controls or less doesn't mean their reasons for doing so are legitimate.

Neither is the hard brexit stance being taken by the government.

On Cameron and his reforms? Let's be honest the UK already had a bespoke deal with the EU, the best of any country, yet wanted more exceptions to please a populace that had been fed a diet of misinformation and lies about the EU from the media that politicians have left unchallenged because of political expediency.

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 06/10/2016 17:11

I agree tiggy

RBeer · 06/10/2016 17:17

The basic premise is that you can't have immigration controls and also EU membership. That's one of the foundations of the EU.
But, you can choose to have immigration controls by not being in the EU'.
So, the 75% will get what they want.

RBeer · 06/10/2016 17:20

Would 75% agree to controls on emmigration? Because that is what they got for 'free'.

smallfox2002 · 06/10/2016 17:23

I'd imagine not beer, I know leave voters who still think they'll be able to to retire to Spain.

TheElementsSong · 06/10/2016 17:30

Polls put the figure anywhere around 75% of the UK population supporting reduced immigration.

So on the face of it 75% will (possibly) get reduced immigration and that's the end of the discussion...

Or is it?

How many of the 75% want reduced immigration but not at the price of wrecking the economy and our international reputation?
How many want reduced immigration because they think immigrants are stealing jobs and undercutting wages (see post from smallfox as to why this might not actually be true)?
How many want reduced immigration because they think immigrants are clogging up the NHS and schools (again, might not actually be true)?
How many want reduced immigration but didn't mean of highly skilled doctors/scientists/engineers etc?

How many want reduced immigration but didn't mean for foreigners to be terrorised, attacked, abused and even killed?

How many want reduced immigration but actually think the recent xenophobic rhetoric coming out of government is utterly grotesque?

In other words - what is the price the 75% are willing to pay to "get what they want"?

Nightofthetentacle · 06/10/2016 17:41

This is probably quite relevant - this blogpost survey has a breakdown of how much people surveyed would be willing to pay to reduce European migration:

blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2016/10/05/hard-brexit-only-if-its-free/

Key graph shows, nowt, basically.

'leavers'  At last we have a date for A50. March 2017 it is then.
smallfox2002 · 06/10/2016 18:06

So a majority of those questioned would rather pay nothing and keep EU immigration?

Funny that.

Waytogojo · 06/10/2016 18:30

I can only speak for myself and while I agree that immigration can be positive economically and sociologically/culturally, I disagree with unfettered immigration without any controls. I'd prefer job-led immigration with full ID disclosure by applicant, proof of means of self support and with a qualifying period before which access to benefits of all kinds, including social housing, is possible. No automatic entrance to relatives. I also think that where an employer takes on a non-U.K. Resident there should be an infrastructure tax paid by the employer to the local authority to assist with population increase.

tiggytape · 06/10/2016 18:36

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smallfox2002 · 06/10/2016 18:37

Migration watch isn't an independent source, more a pressure group.

And as stated just because people said it was a concern doesn't mean the concerns are valid.

smallfox2002 · 06/10/2016 18:38

For example people's surveyed in Sunderland said that the reason for voting out was immigration, in a city where 97 percent are British born.

tiggytape · 06/10/2016 18:46

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