'leavers' At last we have a date for A50. March 2017 it is then.

[surferjet]

Good to have a set date.

Dh said the other day

"It took greenland 3 years to negotiate an exit...and all they had to talk about was fish"

Probably not true but i thought it was funny

In a really thats not funny way

Might not have been greenland

But it was somewhere cold

With fish

Yes, it was Greenland. And yes, it was just fish. And yes, it was three years (less about a fortnight) after the referendum that it actually formally left.

It was Greenland - they gained some sort of autonomy from Denmark, hence the break. I can't remember when it was, but they only had to negotiate with either 8 or 11 other countries. And with only something like 500,000 inhabitants and its main industry fish, it took them three years.

But hey, we are different - we will do it all in two years and be Great Again. Balony, to put it politely.

It was 10 countries - Greece had joined before Greenland's referendum and Spain and Portugal joined after it left.

Also, this was before the Single European Act and the Maastricht, Amsterdam and Lisbon Treaties.

Hm.

Correction, tiggytape - Theresa May is saying that Immigration is her red line. Yes,anti - immigration did play to a large section of the populace, most of whom have very little immigration. But there was no question on the ballot paper about it. If people were asked, Do you want to curb immigration if it means your local hospital will be forced to close because of lack of staff, would people have said yes? I doubt it.

Proposed hospital closures is one issue coming up in the Witney by election - there is a proposal to downgrade Banbury, partly on staffing issues, forcing people to travel further to an overstretched JR in Oxford.

IT was a UK vote, but the UK didn't vote to leave, nearly half of the voting electorate voted to remain. So what should be said is that the UK has voted in a minority to leave. It certainly isn't an overwhelming majority as keeps being stated.

But then we are into post truth times.

None of the policies being advocated by the government have been put to the vote, and therefore they should be ASAP. It is democracy after all.

IT was a UK vote, but the UK didn't vote to leave, nearly half of the voting electorate voted to remain. So what should be said is that the UK has voted in a minority to leave. It certainly isn't an overwhelming majority as keeps being stated.

However 'leave' was the result. It is semantics. The UK did vote the leave.

There is a way to frame the result as a minority, its 2.9% ! Its in no way this overwhelming voice of the people crap that people keep talking about.

"more people voted leave than have ever voted for anything in British history".

Only very slightly more than those who voted to stay, so more people voted than have voted in British History and the winning side won by a extremely slim majority.

It isn't an overwhelming majority and that needs to be addressed and repeated.

smallfox You can repeat it as much as you like. It doesn't change the result.

But it should change the way we think about it.

There are 48% of the population who aren't going to have their voices heard, and for these massive policy changes to take place, which aren't mandated by the referendum vote, is totally undemocratic.

See all the things people argued against the EU for?

You're getting them in spades, but keep repeating we are free.

When you find we are not free, it will be too late.

Two countries, heading down the same path, the US and the UK, led by charismatic right wingers with no regard for the history, the truth, people.... Basing their campaigns on lies and obscenities.

Interesting times we live in.

You sort of see why some countries end up without democracy, people are just too ignorant and unable to connect the dots, to know what is best....

There are 48% of the population who aren't going to have their voices heard, and for these massive policy changes to take place, which aren't mandated by the referendum vote, is totally undemocratic.

Tbf all I hear is Remainers saying it's not fair and trying to get ways to re run the referendum.

I voted remain. It wasn't the result I wanted but it is the result.

Of course the 48% will get their voices heard. There are more anti Brexit MPs than there are pro Brexit. The vast majority however stand by the result whether they wanted it or not.

A few things that interested me this week.

EU laws, Greenland and fish. Well written article in yesterday's Times on fish quotas. When the EEC, as it was then, shared out the quotas it was based on historical fishing areas. Unfortunately for the UK many of our traditional fishing grounds were in Iceland and Norway (presumably Greenland), they didn't join the EEC so we lost those grounds and the EU still gets the blame.

As our traditional fishing fleets in the North East declined, owners sold to EEC fishing fleets. Thus now one Dutch trawler has 23% of the licences. All we will get by not implementing EU laws is a twelve mile, internationally recognised, area around our coasts. That's not much.

It's not possible, but I would love to know whether that 47% who believed the MORI poll in mid June still held that view on June 23rd. What I find puzzling is some people still believe we're sending £350 million to the EU every week – as posted earlier. David Davies doesn't think it's that important telling untruths – he admits politicians have always done it.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/david-davis-brexit-secretary-eu-referendum-campaign-lies-a7344611.html

Also I liked to know why, according to the same MORI poll, few people believed Osborne's claim that each family would be worse off by thousands of pounds.

Monday's Times had a leader stating Parliament should debate the issue of leaving the EU as we're changing a significant law.

May says she won't recognise certain parts of the ECHR, a body founded in 1950 and nothing to do with the EU.

Still wondering what EU laws we shall give up – at the moment I don't see too many. We could stop the clean bathing beaches, but no doubt the Mail would be up in arms when the first excrement is photographed and no more recycling it can all go into landfill, then build houses on top. Simples.

Makes sense tiggy as it fits in with the general inadequacy of the Remain campaign.

Oh, I see Farage is coming back - who'd have thought!

There are 48% of the population who aren't going to have their voices heard

So when we're talking of the Remain vote share, it's 48%.
Yet when it comes to the Leave vote it's 'a minority of voters' or 'only 37.4% of voters'?!

Because it further demonstrates that it isn't an "overwhelming majority" as is oft quoted.

Small difference between the two whatever the matter, yet an even smaller majority are getting their wishes pandered to.

As has been said above, almost all of the reasons for voting leave have been proved to be spurious, especially the democracy ones.

You know not for what you have voted.

Greenland was an overseas territory of Denmark, not Norway. Iceland extended its fishing limit to 200 nautical miles (I remember the 1970s Cod Wars well). Given our location, (UK) can't do that, apart from one or two areas.

Petronius- Greenland has nothing to do with Norway. Greenland is Danish territory, and Denmark is in the EU.

x post

Of course the 48% will get their voices heard. There are more anti Brexit MPs than there are pro Brexit. The vast majority however stand by the result whether they wanted it or not.

But if it's not going to be put to parliamentary vote - where is the forum for those voices to be heard? Will they host a debate 'just for the sake of talking about it because we're pushing it through anyway?

Or will those MPs need to speak to the press to voice views that represent 48% of the population [that cared enough to vote].