So the Good Friday Agreement? How do LEAVE propose to sort? (on Brexit and Northern Ireland - title amended by MNHQ)

[RedToothBrush]

Go on. Lets have some answers.
Can we have a proper talk about how we can stop this affront to democracy and ripping up of a peace plan?

Presumably because he'd get nailed for proposing it!

Absolutely. He can't say anything as there is no option that will not cause a ruckus, and the Tories very clearly have no idea what to do. So Davis and May turn up and say precisely fa. And what Davis says doesn't even make sense.

Even worse Davis was referring to the 'internal border with Southern Ireland' in July, which lead people to question where he was actually aware that the ROI wasn't in the UK.

As for Carol, passport/ID control is in many ways less of an issue than border checks for goods trade.

Sorry Peregrina I didn't see your post on the next page. I totally agree.

Former EU Commissioner rejects claim that Brexit would not bring a hard border

“I am absolutely mystified, not for the first time in this debate, about what is coming out of London,” he said. “We have been told by a number of Conservative Party spokespeople that Britain will leave the common customs area of the EU. If this is true, the customs union, which relates to sharing a common external tariff of the EU, will have to be maintained by all other EU countries with the UK following its withdrawal. Goods will have to be checked at borders."

Presumably goods would also have to be checked at Holyhead and Fishguard?

I was angry with Cameron's stupidity in calling the Referendum without having any sort of plan for what he would do if the vote was Leave. I now feel even more angry at the idiots Theresa May has put in charge of negotiations.

The Irish gvt has the right to request valid official photo-id verifying your nationality

Not got much to do with people travelling within the UK though, has it? The Irish government will have nothing to do with any passport checks between England, Scotland or Wales and NI. That would be something entirely new.

My bet is for a hard border around the island of Ireland. UK and ROI passport holders will be able to travel back and forth visa and queue free, other passport holders will have to queue. So similar to the EU / non EU checks currently in airports. I think governments will take a punt on any smuggling or mass immigration into NI not actually happening.

They would be rather unwise to take a punt (pun intended?) on any smuggling not happening...

You can't force a separate country to put a hard border round its shores.

No way would ROI roll with that.

So put the 'hard border' round mainland Britain then.
Then as mrsvilliers said:

UK and ROI passport holders will be able to travel back and forth visa and queue free, other passport holders will have to queue. So similar to the EU / non EU checks currently in airports.

(And before I get the inevitable bristling against the word 'mainland', I use it in no other context than as a descriptor for the part of UK which encompasses the greater number of land mass & people).

Is it a hard border if nationals of an entirely separate country, ROI, are to be allowed to cross it unchecked?

Instead of calling it the 'mainland', you could just give it its official name of Great Britain. It's a geographical term, Great Britain, as opposed to Little Britain, i.e. Brittany. The Germans and Scandinavians just call it Big Britain, thus avoiding the confusion between Great and Big. Nothing to do with the glory of the Empire as many people seem to think.

Hence, United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Great Britain + Ireland, make up the British Isles.

Is it a hard border if nationals of an entirely separate country, ROI, are to be allowed to cross it unchecked?

Well, yes.
Just like it was between ROI & UK prior to EU free movement.

The mainland (shorthand) UK has a natural hard border in it being an island.

As an independent country, the UK can decide who it wants to let in unchecked, minimal checks, or otherwise.

If a post-Brexit UK decides that free movement is desirable between ROI & the rest of UK (NI and mainland), then that's the prerogative of the UK and no one else.

If the ROI decide that they don't want that, then that's a whole other issue - as it is their prerogative to decide their own movement controls and borders.

Basically, it's between the ROI, NI & Westminster to come to agreement & decide what the best way forward is.

X post re inevitable picking apart of my use of the word 'mainland', even though I clarified that it was mainland due to size (small 'm'), and not Mainland with connotations of power.

Sigh.

I will use GB then if that is preferable.

So:

NI = NI

GB = England, Scotland & Wales

UK = GB & NI

Ireland = the independent, separate part of the island of Ireland

What is the term for the island of Ireland then, if not just Ireland?

Did I read somewhere that Ireland may not be permitted to have a CTA with NI following Brexit as an EU country is not actually allowed to have a CTA with a non-EU country under EU law. Or would at least need explicit consent from the other EU members. So it's not a case of UK going back to the old CTA that existed prior to both joining (which ceases to exist) but a totally new CTA which Ireland would need to ensure was compatible with its EU obligations.

Ireland for the whole island. RoI for the Republic of Ireland. Can't see the problem, myself.

Had all this drummed into us at school in Geography.

FreeButton - I have read the same.

The Scandinavian countries used to have the same sort of agreement, although I can't give chapter and verse on the details. I have travelled from Denmark into Sweden and then Norway without having to get my passport out of my bag. My Danish friend left his passport at home. This was prior to the Schengen agreement, which includes Norway, and Switzerland also.

This might now have changed as part of the Refugee Crisis but that is a separate issue.

Post Brexit, the UK can make arrangements with whomever it wants, so the UK can agree to a free movement agreement with Ireland from UK point of view.

If Ireland cannot make that sort of arrangement/agreement back without the consent of the EU then that is not the fault of the UK or Brexit - it is a wholly EU matter.

I would have thought, however, that the EU would be likely to honour that sort of arrangement as it is of high importance and potentially devastating if not allowed by them.

As a side note, it is precisely that sort of lack of autonomous control of a country's decision making that was one of the reasons people voted to Leave.

Happy to stand correctly, charley. I was taking issue with Great Britain being called 'mainland', which to my mind is an unnecessary shorthand when GB serves perfectly. I was not discoursing on the history of Ireland.

No one said it here, but plenty of people do talk about 'putting the Great back into Britain', which I just find irritating, because it hasn't lost it.

Charley thanks to your comments I've just found out that Ireland has two names - Ireland or Eire and Republic of Ireland. The things you learn en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Ireland