LEAVERS - update on the 'invoke A50 now' petition. I have the reply.

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You’re receiving this email because you signed this petition: “Invoke Article 50 of The Lisbon Treaty immediately.”.

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Dear xxxxxx

The Government has responded to the petition you signed – “Invoke Article 50 of The Lisbon Treaty immediately.”.

Government responded:

The British people have voted to leave the EU and their will must be respected and delivered. We should not trigger Article 50 until we have a UK approach and objectives.

The British people have voted to leave the EU and their will must be respected and delivered. The process for leaving the EU and determining our future relationship will be a complex one, so we need to take time to think through our objectives and approach. We want to ensure the best possible outcome for Britain and the future UK-EU relationship. As part of this, the government will of course work closely with the devolved administrations to ensure we get the best deal for the UK as a whole. We should not trigger Article 50 until we have a UK approach and objectives, so Article 50 should not be invoked before the end of this year.

Department for Exiting the European Union

Click this link to view the response online:

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/133618?reveal_response=yes

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Thanks,
The Petitions team
UK Government and Parliament

You’re receiving this email because you signed this petition: “Invoke Article 50 of The Lisbon Treaty immediately.”.

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If I was offered an alternative to the EU I might have been inclined to vote for that change.

Me too. I have never denied that the EU could do with some reform. The gutting thing is that we have more than likely just voted away our chance to have a seat at the table to discuss and enact that reform.

Utter overgeneralisation by OP of the remain voters. Unsurprising as appears you

a) think extraordinary difficult decisions with impact way beyond the average punter could possibly understand can be boiled down to a yes/no vote

b) think 2 years is plenty of time to negotiate out of something that took 40 years to build and is embedded into every thing with GB coming out on top?

You think it's #simples it's actually #SoHeartCrushinglyComplicated

I voted against uncontrolled immigration from the EU. I feel we should have a system that is the same for all the people of the world no mater where they come from and they should all be judged on the same basis. What ever that is. I actually feel that uncontrolled migration from the EU, from countries which are predominantly populated by white Caucasians smacks as racist and not the other way round.

Corcory, I voted against uncontrolled immigration from the EU.

So do you feel that your wishes are being/will be carried out? How will you feel if any eventual deal does not include this point?

I think "uncontrolled immigration" actually smacks as racist, because it makes it sound as if there is a chaotic chronic problem with immigration. It draws on images that have been used by the leave campaign, and terms like "swarms".

I have no problem with people coming in from outside the EU either, but I think your attempt to say that you want to judge all on the same basis and you appeal to race is rather flawed. Mainly because for the countries outside of the EU we don't have reciprocal rights for UK citizens so "judge all on the same or your racist" is a flawed and rather mendacious argument.

There were reports published yesterday showed what the effect of lowering immigration to the governments target of tens of thousands, marginal pay increase for the lowest paid, very damaging for the economy.

Also the most optimistic forecasts show that even if we apply the same rules to EU citizens as those outside the largest fall we would get in immigration would be about 100 thousand, however this would be further impacted by the fact that far more Brits would be stayng home, leaving net migration in a similar position as it has been on average since 2004, about 250,000.

I didn't say I wanted it lowered I just said I wanted it controlled.

OK Corcory that's fair enough.

But, as has been said, it wasn't the question on the ballot paper. Nor was the promise of a Referendum to ask if we wanted to control immigration followed by a second Referendum as to what form that control should take. (Like you might get if you had a Referendum to change the National Anthem could be Yes/No and if followed by a Yes - which of these options do you want?)
Nor was it what the people who have been telling Muslims to go home and daubing racist slogans on Polish Community centres thought they were voting for.

So here we are again, going round in circles, and the leaders of the Leave campaign are either absent, quiet or incompetent.

Nor was it a hoard of white Europeans depicted on Farage's poster.

I haven't been on this forum in a few months, certainly before the Brexit fiasco. Wish I hadn't started reading through some of the MN posts on the topic.
Utterly depressing that some people who voted Leave still now try to remotely justify their position, and want to invoke Art 50 asap. WFT?

I can forgive some of the Leave voters given that they were fed a pack of lies couldn't be arsed to research the facts by themselves but NOW with everything that has come to light surely there is absolutely no excuse for persisting in justifying their position?

I for one am still totally gutted. I have lived here as an "immigrant" with double British citizenship since the 80's. The nation I have loved and called my home for decades doesn't feel that safe anymore, I live in a high Leave vote area and simply don't feel that comfortable talking to strangers anymore.
All the things that made this society great, its Tolerance and compassion, its multiculturalism due to its not so glorious Imperial past, its Liberal values, its traditions of openness and fairness, welcoming people of different cultures and races, human rights activism, compassionate policies towards political and war refugees...right now all those things that made this society a beacon in the world to be emulated wiped out by this hateful Leave campaign.
If people persist in their xenophobia now after the lies have come to light, I will come to the conclusion that the only reason they voted Leave is xenophobia/racism since all other possible arguments have been debunked post referendum vote.

Noone is going to be better off, least of all the English working classes.

I will leave the UK, not a light claim since my husband is born and bred here, and my children too. If we do I will miss my friends terribly, and the beautiful English countryside, and the museums, and some of the daft self deprecating ways of the English, the dry sense of humour, and the live music scene, and even fish and chips...but I refuse to spend the rest of my life in a country where half of the population no longer welcomes me.

Just venting really and a different take on the many discussions I have seen on so many social sites.
For those who still believe they did the right thing by voting Leave, and abandoning the European ideal, I offer you this thought/ quote:
"To err is human, To persist in error is diabolical"

I think Corcory point just serves to highlight the range of views out there on the subject of immigration alone.

To say it was a 'simple in/out vote' really does everyone a massive disservice in terms of democracy.

Making a Brexit plan without proper public consultation - which you would get on other major issues of a lesser magnitude - its very undemocratic and akin to putting words into the mouths of Leavers.

That's without taking into consideration the views of the other 48% over single issues that come encompassed in the whole Brexit debate.

I personally have found the Leave 'suck it up' comments disgusting. Twitter and social media are full of them. Yet the irony is, that trying to silence the debate being generated by many Remainers actually does a massive disservice to the democratic voices of those who voted Leave.

We have to be working together and actually properly establishing what people actually WANT rather than merely what they DON'T want.

I gave it serious thought am happy with my choices and believe it's for the best feel free to leave our wonderful, liberal, tolerant country if you wish but don't blame every Leave voter, immigration was not and is not part of my decision process. I hope you are as happy settled safe and prosperous where ever you decide to settle

Red, yes. That's why I asked Corcory the question I did. I'm interested in the answer.

Soover, how do you feel the post-Brexit situation is so far? What is making you feel happy about your choices? What do you feel Brexit means?

Sooverthis, what did you vote FOR. I'm interested. Genuinely.

Soover no worries I have a bright future ahead as I have a European job, European heritage and family, and own property in Eu.
But I love this country and I am quite pissed off that after all this time I feel unsafe in the place I have called home for most of my life.
I wish for those in not such a fortunate position that not too many higher rate tax paying "immigrants" take my planned course of action as there will be even less money to go round the NHS and for benefits with more austerity measures, let alone the amounts given with Eu funding towards the Arts, Sports, Culture, Infrastructure, Life Sciences research, etc, etc, etc.

I am sorry but I no longer believe that anyone who persists in justifying their Leave vote is not xenophobic.

"I think "uncontrolled immigration" actually smacks as racist, "
What would have been a non racist way to phrase that, then, smallfox?

Freedom of movement.

So do you think the word 'immigration' is racist?
'Uncontrolled freedom of movement' is ok, but 'uncontrolled immigration' isn't?

Dapple, it's the word 'uncontrolled' really, not 'immigration'. There is also at present 'uncontrolled immigration' for Brits into e.g. Spain, but people don't really call it that –the word used tends to be 'expats'.

Yup sapphire, all of the coverage regarding the 800000 brits full time resident in Spain referred to them as ex pats.

It's the uncontrolled word that has the connotations.

Basically the word uncontrolled the has connotations about amounts of people coming in, and the rhetoric about pressure on services etc.

Basically it creates images of negativity, which is of course why it got used so much in the leave campaign, it has that note of the dog whistle about it.

Also that it NEEDS controlling in some way because it's undesirable.

Sapphire do you think that there should be no limit on immigration into the UK?

And the 800000 uncontrolled immigrants in Spain are most likely to be retired people, who will be making demands on the Spanish health service. This is even if the correct forms have been filled in for the Spanish authorities to reclaim the costs.

I can see that Spain is not likely to start asking UK citizens to have visas to go there on holiday, because they didn't do so before either country was in the EU, but as for the retired people living there? I do wonder how much their contribution is to the Spanish economy.

Well, at the moment we do have freedom of movement and all the evidence points towards it being overwhelmingly good for the country.

Smallfox thank you for answering my questions.
Do you think Peregrina's question about large numbers of elderly Britons in Spain putting pressure on the Spanish health service is racist?