LEAVERS - update on the 'invoke A50 now' petition. I have the reply.

[Surferjet]

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Dear xxxxxx

The Government has responded to the petition you signed – “Invoke Article 50 of The Lisbon Treaty immediately.”.

Government responded:

The British people have voted to leave the EU and their will must be respected and delivered. We should not trigger Article 50 until we have a UK approach and objectives.

The British people have voted to leave the EU and their will must be respected and delivered. The process for leaving the EU and determining our future relationship will be a complex one, so we need to take time to think through our objectives and approach. We want to ensure the best possible outcome for Britain and the future UK-EU relationship. As part of this, the government will of course work closely with the devolved administrations to ensure we get the best deal for the UK as a whole. We should not trigger Article 50 until we have a UK approach and objectives, so Article 50 should not be invoked before the end of this year.

Department for Exiting the European Union

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petition.parliament.uk/petitions/133618?reveal_response=yes

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Thanks,
The Petitions team
UK Government and Parliament

You’re receiving this email because you signed this petition: “Invoke Article 50 of The Lisbon Treaty immediately.”.

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surfer that Spectator article illustrates perfectly the reason you voted as you did.

It is a load of emotive twaddle.

Talk about only hearing what you want to hear.

There was nothing factual in it, even the attempt at this (the £350m) was wrong.

There was absolutely nothing about was life outside the EU would be like.

I'm shocked that you repeatedly state you didn't listen to the campaigns but made your decision based on you own research yet that real search turns out to be shite like that article.

The EU is a 'boy's club'? The whole fucking world is a boy's club.

Female MEPs: 37%
Female MPs: 29%

That's 8% more women in the European Parliament.

The European Commission is concerned about and monitors gender balance (in science projects too - I haven't seen it in nationally funded projects).

Juncker is actively looking into getting more women into key positions in the EU:
blogs.wsj.com/brussels/2015/04/24/juncker-wants-more-women-in-eu-commission-reshuffle/

At the last reshuffle, there were 9/28 European commissioners. That's 30%.
The last two UK cabinets have had more or less the same composition at about 30%.

To add that Juncker was not happy with the 30% Female at the last reshuffle.
He wants more the misogynistic bastard.

It is Trump politics though isn't it? Priti Patel, pro hanging, anti same sex marriage, former enthusiastic lobbyist for British American Tobacco tries to win women's votes with evocative images of powerful women, only slightly undermined by the fact that Pankhurst's descendants were furious that she was campaigning in their ancestor's name.

Meanwhile we have those great "feminists" prominent in the campaign?

Boris buffoon lothario, was almost as tactless in his views on women as he was about anywhere but Britain metro.co.uk/2016/06/29/10-important-things-boris-johnson-has-said-about-women-5974038/

Farage your typical multi millionaire with a pint down the pub who believes women with children are worth less in the workforce, and did little to curb the incendiary misogyny and bigotry amongst the kippers

Raab who thinks feminists are "obnoxious bigots"

Andrea Leadham - well that one does not work on so many levels......

Nothing here to suggest the leave vote is going to benefit women, especially working women, more emotion over substance,

Citing a Julie Burchill article in your defence is pretty desperate stuff, surfer. You do know who she is, don't you? She's made her whole career out of saying deliberately provocative and contrarian things.

surfer - you made the "half a brain" comment because you were tired. Ok. My dad voted Leave and I voted Remain. In the run up to the referendum and its immediate aftermath, he initiated several discussions. Without exception, I remained calm and explained my reasons for wanting to remain whilst he quickly became agitated and shouty and started accusing people of being idiots/having half a brain and other pointless insults. I didn't need to shout and insult because I was certain of my opinions and felt confident in expressing them.

Surfer- you have been on threads ever since the vote and this is the very first time you have said anything about it being a feminist issue.

You're right bertrand- talk about trying to justify something after the event and failing dismally.

this is the very first time you have said anything about it being a feminist issue.

Which it isn't, and if anything, it's the opposite of what surfer says.

From a quick Google:
www.stylist.co.uk/people/feminism/eu-referendum-european-union-feminism-vote-to-remain-brexit-leave-caroline-lucas-green-party-women-equality

"When the UK Government made no attempt to amend the Equal Pay Act to take account of the 1975 Directive, the Commission issued proceedings in the European Court of Justice (ECJ), and in 1982 the ECJ ruled in favour of the Commission. The UK was then obliged to amend the Equal Pay Act to include an equal value claim."

twssmagazine.com/2016/06/16/what-has-the-eu-done-for-feminism/
"what has the EU ever done for feminism?

1. Abolished discriminatory laws
2. The right to complain
3. Mandatory body to fight gender inequality
4. European Convention on Human Rights (not EU, mas for many Brexiters in the same package)
5. Cross-border recognition (for DV)
6. Improvement (increased employment for women recorded in the EU)
7. Commitment to ending FGM"

I can personally tell you that, in research, Marie Curie fellowships (which are for men and women, btw) as well as are favourable to women, in terms of considering career breaks and maternity leave, when other fellowships rarely are.

Even ERC (European Research Council grants) encourage women
sciencebusiness.net/news/77433/Womens-share-of-ERC-consolidator-grants-rises-to-31-percent-

Each project submitted to European Commission programmes has to explain how it addresses gender issues and encourages equality, in the research and regarding the research team.
Not in the UK (unless it has changed very recently).

If anything, the EU goes ahead of the UK in feminist issues.

Speaking of Hanging.

If you could ask one question and one question only to guess whether someone supported remain or leave it would be:

Do you support bringing back the death penalty?

70% of people who said yes were Leave supporters.

The Human Rights Act is part of legislation required by the EU. (I guess this is the one bit of law they really don't like and think the EU are bastards for). And guess what, its one that the government want to get rid of and replace with a British Bill of Rights.

Now it is unlikely to include the death penalty, but there are plenty of people - like Irish Catholics - who find this alarming as they fear they could end up with fewer rights. And oh the Good Friday Agreement is intertwined with one of the very laws that the government now wants to change.

To say that Ireland was never talked about is utter nonsense. It was. You just ignored it, because it was something that happened far away and you weren't interested in.

But hang on for a second you also previously said you thought other places in the country when talking about immigration. You stated that it didn't impact on you personally yet you graciously were thinking of others when it DID influence your vote and you considered the effect on others important.

I'll park your filter for thinking of others right there, I think we all can see it for what it is.

You are now telling me that Brexit is a feminist idea! Yes UKIP and the Tory Right are very well known for their feminism.

Indeed, you might want to look at this chart about how Leave voters think feminism is a force for ill.

You're right Red, I didn't think of NI, or indeed Scotland for that matter. ( they'll probably go independent soon anyway & good luck to them ) I only concentrated on England & Wales. And actually. I didn't hear much about NI in the run up to the election. Our televised debate hardly mentioned them - stop telling me I'm wrong when I'm the one who lives in London & knows exactly what was being said here.

I live in London. All my life in fact. I don't recognise a single word you've said about it.

surferjet "stop telling me I'm wrong when I'm the one who lives in London & knows exactly what was being said here."

I was living in Central London in the run up to the referendum. The Leave campaign was treated like an implausible sick joke that was taking too long to blow over. A racist impossibility that the majority did not believe could possibly happen. Most certainly every single person I spoke to (many people) was aware of the big issues regarding NI and Scotland.

That's a fact and you are wrong.

Maybe you just "forgot" about what was going on in London the way you "forgot" about NI and Scotland although you researched this issue really, really, really, really thoroughly?

What was being said in London that was any different to the rest of the country? The televised debates went out in England Wales Scotland and Northern Ireland and you would have had to be quite wilful to avoid what was being said, at one point, the threat of Scottish Independence was heavily played as one of Cameron's trump cards in the campaign with heavy coverage in every part of the media.

Quite honestly your claims to be a Londoner are somewhat at odds with your consciousness but then the experience living in some areas east and south east, the UKIP heartlands, would be at very much at odds with the rest of London. If you came out with some of this trite xenophobic nonsense in my community the ensuing piss taking would make Private Eye, as indeed it did when our UKIP candidate tried it..... I assume it would be different in Brentwoid or Thanet.....

Bearbehind thank you for kindly starting a new thread:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/2715975-Not-my-circus-not-my-monkeys-is-not-good-enough-a-thread-for-those-who-actually-want-answers?

London was far far less tolerant of the racist, xenophobic shit of Leave campaign. I was discussing this only a couple of days ago with my Jamaican window cleaner.

Zac Goldsmith pissed off the entire city with this anti-immigrant campaign for mayor. People were really disgusted by it. He massively misread London on that front. And the Leave campaign was more of the same. Except sadly the rest of the country is a lot more naive and malleable.

I watched two televised debates. One had Sadiq Khan, Nicola Sturgeon, & Ruth Davidson ( Scottish Tory leader ) representing remain, & the other one had Amber Rudd, Angela Eagle & NS ( again ) - there wasn't anyone in the remain camp from NI or particularly representing them in any specific way.
Did you watch something else?

surfer your comments just don't add up.

In one breath you say you didn't listen to the campaigns but did your own research.

In the next breath you say there was no mention of issues like NI and Scotland.

Then you see you voted for the side who's comments appealed to you the most.

Then you say you voted for the greater good.

Don't you see your comments have absolutely no substance.

This thread is full and you've not given us one vision for the future that is actually compatible with all the other issues Brexit will involve.

There will have been more than two debates, surely.

In one breath you say you didn't listen to the campaigns but did your own research

Incorrect.

In the next breath you say there was no mention of issues like NI and Scotland

Incorrect again. I said there was little mention of NI.

Then you see you voted for the side who's comments appealed to you the most

Yes. And?

Then you say you voted for the greater good

Correct. What's wrong with that?

What is wrong with that is that you've never explained what 'the greater good' is.

you have 2 more posts to do so as I'm guessing you'll not come over to the new thread.

No, I'm not going over to any other referendum thread. I've stayed on this one because I started it ( felt obliged almost )

Hopefully someone else can give you the answers you're looking for.

Hopefully someone else can give you the answers you're looking for.
Leave replies have been a bit on the thin side so far, but it's early days yet.