On your first point. No, not really. Some of us just aren't used to in depth questioning over what was a simple in/out vote.
This is where I disagree straight away. It was made into a simple in/out vote when the reality was it was never a simple in/out question OR solution. It was simplified to the point that it was dumbed down and no longer reflective of the reality.
If you believe it ever was a simple in/out vote, then you were misguided. Why?
Because you had to have a simple solution already on the table about what out actually would be in practice and how it would work. Not have to go through negotiations post vote.
Both Remain in Cameron and the government and the Leave campaign failed and mislead you on this. Deliberately.
You should be angry about this. You should not defend them by saying it was. Saying you are not used to in depth questioning, isn't a defence here. If you have an opinion, that's great. It should be encouraged more and more. People should be encouraged to develop their thinking beyond black and white. That involves debate and people saying challenging things you don't agree with. It involves having your mind either made up by strengthening your argument with substance or an admission that someone has come up with something valid you hadn't previously considered.
The majority of people voted leave because they had concerns over uncontrolled immigration.
Actually we had a 'simple in / out vote'. We did not have a vote which measured the nation's concerns over uncontrolled immigration. The reasons for the Leave vote were many and varied and were not shared universally.
The Leave campaign deliberately used a propaganda technique known as 'glittering generalities'. This is a technique which effectively promises the earth and lets people pick and choose their own meaning and understanding of what Leave meant. This is best shown by the fact that no two leading Brexiteers had a shared vision of what Leave meant and couldn't agree on what Brexit would look like before the vote. There was 'no plan'. This is a massively important issue for the future. Its not just a criticism of the Leave campaign.
The net result is almost every Leave vote has a unique vision of what Brexit is and many think that everyone else shares that vision, because they were encouraged to take ownership of Brexit in their own minds.
The trouble that this now means that politicians themselves don't actually properly know what Brexit is and are scrabbling around to find a 'best fit'. The problem with allowing everyone to take such ownership of Brexit, is that it can never be delivered in the way that people had formed that idea in their head. At some point the majority of Brexiteers will have some element of Brexit they felt integral to the whole vote discarded and will be very unhappy about that outcome.
Its 'The Big Lie'.
This is why, the sooner that the government is honest about this, the better as far as I am concerned. The longer that people are strung along, the more they will feel betrayed by this government rather than it being able to be blamed the campaign strategy of Leave. (This is despite many of the Brexiteers being part of government - if Johnson, Fox and Davies made an early admission of this, they might stop themselves and government being damaged further in the long run, and they could consign the issue to the past, rather than merely kicking the pebble a little further down the road, still to be dealt with as an obstacle).
Leaving the EU will gave us more control.
How?
Honestly. Simple question? How? And over what?
I am genuinely interested in what we have taken back control of and how this control manifests itself as I don't understand the mentality and want to expand this gap in my knowledge.
The way I see it, we are really at the mercy of what deal the EU will allow us to have far more than we were as part of the EU. We have no real part of this in great measure. There are discussions going on later this month between the other 27 countries without us which will decide our future. Any trade we have with the EU will be on the EU's terms. Norway have pointed this out to us, when we have pointed to their set up as something to aspire too.
We have bargaining power, but only to a point. We are not in control of the situation and to frame it as such, is just wrong.
We are going to be tied up in legal and constitutional issues on a national and EU level for years. We will have no say in this.
We will be going into years of trade deals which we have little and no experience in.
That is a fact, or at least that's what we voted for.
No people did NOT vote FOR something. There was no 'something' to vote for. The Leave vote was a vote AGAINST staying in the EU. That's the problem. There was No Plan.
What more is there to say? I've said I want more control over immigration. One sentence is all I need.
The trouble is, this is what YOU voted for. The question asked was:
Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?
It was NOT -
Do you want more control over immigration?
There's the problem right there. Your interpretation of what the question was, is different to what the actual question was.
And other people will have different interpretations too.
It CAN NOT be summed up in one sentence then. Hence the need for debate. Hence the need for not invoking a50 anytime soon.
As I say, politicians need to get a grip on the situation and start managing expectations and making admissions that the promises made are ridiculous can not be delivered because they made promises that had no understanding and bore no relationship to the bureaucratic and archaic nature of THE UK GOVERNMENT, the complex nature of our union and how devolution was done without ever considering the implications of such a constitutional crisis and how 27 other countries might feel and might be affected by our decisions and how they also need to protect their own national interests and the interests of their people.
You need to start realising that there is a vast difference between the political will to leave the EU and the capacity to shape and deliver a post referendum Britain.
It is not simple. It was never simple. And if you think it is, you need to readjust that thinking quickly as its categorically and simply wrong.
We all have shared interests in our future, regardless of whether we were leave or remain. We need to focus on that, and the reality of the situation NOW rather than what people think or believe. That's a massive shift of thinking for all parties, but we all need to do it.
We need to cut the crap of 'taking back control' and say 'what control do we actually have and what can we get out of this situation that we are actually facing'.